ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
Ok, then I don't expect to hear this same old c r a p next offseason about not wanting to spend $ or sign any stars. Same for 2027. Can you agree to that?
Or are we going to hear the same old tune every year from here to eternity? Or next year they will have some excuse as to why they can't spend money.
Again, it will depend on where they are at achieving a critical mass of young talent.
I've clearly said before that I think getting both Wetherholt and Doyle to the major league team and at least progressing towards reaching their ceilings is going to be necessary before they are ready to compete again.
Realistically, IMO, after the 2027 season is about the earliest I see them being in position to define their most critical needs and make a move to add expensive veteran FAs to try to "win now."
Then we are talking about guys like Herrera and Winn and Burly being "too old" and costing "too much" so you will want to trade them for some more "young talent".
And the beat goes on and on.......
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
And he still has a full no trade clause - so he dictates where he will go. IMO, the chances of him wanting to come to St. Louis are basically zero.
Why?
We are supposedly building a young "critical mass" of talent.
We have bookoo $ to spend.
His dad was a very good player for us and is familiar with oth organization.
They would have to trade their top young talent to get him and that would put the cardinals back at ground zero
I get that he would cost some prospects. (Not as many as you'd probably think, though.) But that wasnt my point.
I was answering as to why he might be interested. Not why we should/shouldn't.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
Ok, then I don't expect to hear this same old c r a p next offseason about not wanting to spend $ or sign any stars. Same for 2027. Can you agree to that?
Or are we going to hear the same old tune every year from here to eternity? Or next year they will have some excuse as to why they can't spend money.
Again, it will depend on where they are at achieving a critical mass of young talent.
I've clearly said before that I think getting both Wetherholt and Doyle to the major league team and at least progressing towards reaching their ceilings is going to be necessary before they are ready to compete again.
Realistically, IMO, after the 2027 season is about the earliest I see them being in position to define their most critical needs and make a move to add expensive veteran FAs to try to "win now."
Then we are talking about guys like Herrera and Winn and Burly being "too old" and costing "too much" so you will want to trade them for some more "young talent".
And the beat goes on and on.......
And this whole idea that ownership will jolt payroll after getting a young core in place is hard to believe. If attendance plummets again this year and maybe the next year based on a poor record, good luck on getting the purse strings untethered from the BDWs miserly grip.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
And he still has a full no trade clause - so he dictates where he will go. IMO, the chances of him wanting to come to St. Louis are basically zero.
Why?
We are supposedly building a young "critical mass" of talent.
We have bookoo $ to spend.
His dad was a very good player for us and is familiar with oth organization.
They would have to trade their top young talent to get him and that would put the cardinals back at ground zero
I get that he would cost some prospects. (Not as many as you'd probably think, though.) But that wasnt my point.
I was answering as to why he might be interested. Not why we should/shouldn't.
They will be looking for a return similar to what they gave up to get Soto so what they get will be more than what you think. But I highly doubt he would waive it to come to a rebuilding team he would want to go to another team
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
It would be dumb to trade for tatis. I know some are delusional and think the cardinals can trade guys like Donovan and burly and a catching prospect for him but it would cost them JJ, Doyle and probably Baez and others probably mcgreevy and or Mathew’s also. It would completely wreck the team
It didn't take nearly that much to get Renteria. And unlike Renteria, Tatis is already paid at or near market value and over the course of his contract there's probably not a lot of surplus TV there. So sure, if we ask the Padres to kick in half his salary, like Boston asked us to do for Gray, then we would have to send a Lot of prospects back the other way. But if we take on all the money for Tatis, then the cost in prospects goes way down and SD is out from under a massive future obligation.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
It would be dumb to trade for tatis. I know some are delusional and think the cardinals can trade guys like Donovan and burly and a catching prospect for him but it would cost them JJ, Doyle and probably Baez and others probably mcgreevy and or Mathew’s also. It would completely wreck the team
It didn't take nearly that much to get Renteria. And unlike Renteria, Tatis is already paid at or near market value and over the course of his contract there's probably not a lot of surplus TV there. So sure, if we ask the Padres to kick in half his salary, like Boston asked us to do for Gray, then we would have to send a Lot of prospects back the other way. But if we take on all the money for Tatis, then the cost in prospects goes way down and SD is out from under a massive future obligation.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
It would be dumb to trade for tatis. I know some are delusional and think the cardinals can trade guys like Donovan and burly and a catching prospect for him but it would cost them JJ, Doyle and probably Baez and others probably mcgreevy and or Mathew’s also. It would completely wreck the team
It didn't take nearly that much to get Renteria. And unlike Renteria, Tatis is already paid at or near market value and over the course of his contract there's probably not a lot of surplus TV there. So sure, if we ask the Padres to kick in half his salary, like Boston asked us to do for Gray, then we would have to send a Lot of prospects back the other way. But if we take on all the money for Tatis, then the cost in prospects goes way down and SD is out from under a massive future obligation.
lol you’re comparing the trade of a three year guy with 3 home runs and a .689 OPS 26 years ago to tatis that is hilarious hey it didn’t take them much to get McGwire either back in the 90s I’ll bet they could trade not much for Aaron judge also since we are randomly picking trades from a long time ago. Let’s just trade next nothing for tatis and a top of the rotation pitcher and a number 2 starter since trades have happened in the past. The padres are open to trading him but they aren’t desperate and since he’s a fan favorite they aren’t going to just trade him for next to nothing it’s not happening but hey keep pipe dreaming
Pura Vida wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 17:24 pm
If the 26 team is worse than 25, or if it's the same, I think you have your answer. All anyone can see thus far is a salary dump. Looks like more empty seats to me.
A salary dump except for the part where the team ate $20 million so that they could get a good prospect in return.
Still dumped $20M.
Your best picther AND 20 mil, all for a prospect? Ok rephrasing...they are minimizing their losses...cutting their losses?
They essentially converted Gray into a 2nd McGreevy in exchange for $20M and a very live arm whose floor is late inning BP (think Svanson or O'Brien).
That's a pretty good exchange for a team with no hope of going anywhere in 2026.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
Ok, then I don't expect to hear this same old c r a p next offseason about not wanting to spend $ or sign any stars. Same for 2027. Can you agree to that?
Or are we going to hear the same old tune every year from here to eternity? Or next year they will have some excuse as to why they can't spend money.
Again, it will depend on where they are at achieving a critical mass of young talent.
I've clearly said before that I think getting both Wetherholt and Doyle to the major league team and at least progressing towards reaching their ceilings is going to be necessary before they are ready to compete again.
Realistically, IMO, after the 2027 season is about the earliest I see them being in position to define their most critical needs and make a move to add expensive veteran FAs to try to "win now."
Then we are talking about guys like Herrera and Winn and Burly being "too old" and costing "too much" so you will want to trade them for some more "young talent".
And the beat goes on and on.......
Winn would be age 26 in the 2028 season, Herrera would be age 28, and Burleson would be age 29. All would still be in their expected prime seasons, and as I've stated elsewhere, I would be trying to get them signed now (if they are projected to be part of your "core" going forward) to low AAV contracts through age 30 with up to two team option years for their age 31 and age 32 seasons.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
It would be dumb to trade for tatis. I know some are delusional and think the cardinals can trade guys like Donovan and burly and a catching prospect for him but it would cost them JJ, Doyle and probably Baez and others probably mcgreevy and or Mathew’s also. It would completely wreck the team
It didn't take nearly that much to get Renteria. And unlike Renteria, Tatis is already paid at or near market value and over the course of his contract there's probably not a lot of surplus TV there. So sure, if we ask the Padres to kick in half his salary, like Boston asked us to do for Gray, then we would have to send a Lot of prospects back the other way. But if we take on all the money for Tatis, then the cost in prospects goes way down and SD is out from under a massive future obligation.
BTV has Tatis' trade value at +83.3.
If that is in the ballpark of correct, the Cardinals would have to give Wetherholt (+59.8) and Doyle (+29.9) and have the Padres kick in $6 million, total (not $6 million per year). The Padres are not trading Tatis for spare parts.
And Tatis STILL has a full no trade clause and almost certainly would not want to come to St. Louis.
ggnoobs wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:34 am
I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.
BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.
The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.
So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.
I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.
The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.
Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.
I think I have made my point very clear.
You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.
Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.
Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.
But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again
And he still has a full no trade clause - so he dictates where he will go. IMO, the chances of him wanting to come to St. Louis are basically zero.
Why?
We are supposedly building a young "critical mass" of talent.
We have bookoo $ to spend.
His dad was a very good player for us and is familiar with oth organization.
Fernando Tatis, Jr. doesn't strike me as being anything like his father. Tatis, Jr. seems to me to be strictly a "big market" personality. He'll play in California, New York, maybe Texas or Chicago.
Pura Vida wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 17:24 pm
If the 26 team is worse than 25, or if it's the same, I think you have your answer. All anyone can see thus far is a salary dump. Looks like more empty seats to me.
A salary dump except for the part where the team ate $20 million so that they could get a good prospect in return.
Still dumped $20M.
Your best picther AND 20 mil, all for a prospect? Ok rephrasing...they are minimizing their losses...cutting their losses?
They essentially converted Gray into a 2nd McGreevy in exchange for $20M and a very live arm whose floor is late inning BP (think Svanson or O'Brien).
That's a pretty good exchange for a team with no hope of going anywhere in 2026.
Want to treat people as commodities? Ok, so you traded a proven commodity in SG and $20 million for an unknown commodity and this is not dumping salaries? We'll all wait for the final rosters to make a judgement, but to sit there and applaud this dump speaks volumes and insures empty seats.
Pura Vida wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 17:24 pm
If the 26 team is worse than 25, or if it's the same, I think you have your answer. All anyone can see thus far is a salary dump. Looks like more empty seats to me.
A salary dump except for the part where the team ate $20 million so that they could get a good prospect in return.
Still dumped $20M.
Your best picther AND 20 mil, all for a prospect? Ok rephrasing...they are minimizing their losses...cutting their losses?
They essentially converted Gray into a 2nd McGreevy in exchange for $20M and a very live arm whose floor is late inning BP (think Svanson or O'Brien).
That's a pretty good exchange for a team with no hope of going anywhere in 2026.
Want to treat people as commodities? Ok, so you traded a proven commodity in SG and $20 million for an unknown commodity and this is not dumping salaries? We'll all wait for the final rosters to make a judgement, but to sit there and applaud this dump speaks volumes and insures empty seats.
You responded to my post which said, "Still dumped $20M," so I'm confused about why you're treating me like I don't think this was a salary dump.
And your commodity description is incomplete. They traded SG and his $40M contract for a replacement starter, $20M in savings, and a high-ceiling prospect.
If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork
It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?
Based on what evidence?
Based on the pure # of teams that do it year after year. Many more examples of perpetual rebuilding than tanking and turning it around.
“Trust me bro”
That's what they say about socialism too, guy. We can see how often that works.
I was mocking you with the trust me bro quote since you didn’t provide any factual evidence.
If possible stop being a dumb[ash].
And I was mocking you too, guy. I'm not going to sit around and try to figure out how many teams have tanked and been perpetual rebuilders. Just look around the league and use your brain. If you've watched baseball for any semblance of time you know that this number is big.
If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork
It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?
Based on what evidence?
Based on the pure # of teams that do it year after year. Many more examples of perpetual rebuilding than tanking and turning it around.
“Trust me bro”
That's what they say about socialism too, guy. We can see how often that works.
I was mocking you with the trust me bro quote since you didn’t provide any factual evidence.
If possible stop being a dumb[ash].
And I was mocking you too, guy. I'm not going to sit around and try to figure out how many teams have tanked and been perpetual rebuilders. Just look around the league and use your brain. If you've watched baseball for any semblance of time you know that this number is big.
How many teams who can bring a $170, $175, etc. million MLB payroll to bear when they are ready to transition from "rebuilding" to "competing" have been "perpetual rebuilders"?
