Can St. Louis Cardinal fans withstand the Rebuild Tornado that is about to hit ?

[Carp4Cy]

50 min. video posted about an hour ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6J5sHPOs

If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork

It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?

Then we have the Thunder and Broncos and Avs. And maybe the Cowboys will be good again someday. At least Jerry isn’t afraid to spend.

[Carp4Cy]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again

[Carp4Cy]

As opposed to the mediocre tapioca pudding we've been served the last few seasons while pedaling a stationary bike? Gladly

Also like the poster above me said, I don't blame the team at all for not wanting to sign any big contracts with a strike and new CBA looming

We seem irrationally over worried about the work stoppage compared to 20 something other teams trying to get better Now.

What did they know that we won’t acknowledge?

[ForumPolice]

As opposed to the mediocre tapioca pudding we've been served the last few seasons while pedaling a stationary bike? Gladly

Also like the poster above me said, I don't blame the team at all for not wanting to sign any big contracts with a strike and new CBA looming

We seem irrationally over worried about the work stoppage compared to 20 something other teams trying to get better Now.

What did they know that we won’t acknowledge?

Attendance that's swirling down the toilet and a horrible TV contract

[Cardinals4Life]

As opposed to the mediocre tapioca pudding we've been served the last few seasons while pedaling a stationary bike? Gladly

Also like the poster above me said, I don't blame the team at all for not wanting to sign any big contracts with a strike and new CBA looming

We seem irrationally over worried about the work stoppage compared to 20 something other teams trying to get better Now.

What did they know that we won’t acknowledge?

Its just another excuse, that's why!

[Talkin' Baseball]

As opposed to the mediocre tapioca pudding we've been served the last few seasons while pedaling a stationary bike? Gladly

Also like the poster above me said, I don't blame the team at all for not wanting to sign any big contracts with a strike and new CBA looming

We seem irrationally over worried about the work stoppage compared to 20 something other teams trying to get better Now.

What did they know that we won’t acknowledge?

No mystery. They too, are acknowledging the potential effects of a new CBA. You say 20 teams trying to get better. I say roughly 10 teams doing what we are doing, 10 teams trying to get incrementally better, and 10 aggressively trying to get better. Most of the 10 aggressively trying to get better are over the luxury tax already.

With the CBA, one of four things is going to happen:
1) Things will stay substantially the same. Teams aggressively trying to get better now win.
2) Salary cap comes. Teams payrolls are grandfathered In. Teams aggressively trying to get better now win.
3) Salary cap comes. Teams payrolls are grandfathered in, but they incrementally have to come into compliance with the cap. Teams aggressively trying to get better win- for now, but they aren't signing anyone new anytime soon.
4) Salary cap comes. Teams with payrolls are forced to come into compliance. Teams aggressively trying to get better now lose. They will be divesting themselves of contracts and not taking on new money.

[Pura Vida]

If the 26 team is worse than 25, or if it's the same, I think you have your answer. All anyone can see thus far is a salary dump. Looks like more empty seats to me.

A salary dump except for the part where the team ate $20 million so that they could get a good prospect in return.

Still dumped $20M.

Your best picther AND 20 mil, all for a prospect? Ok rephrasing...they are minimizing their losses...cutting their losses?

[mattmitchl44]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

Ok, then I don't expect to hear this same old c r a p next offseason about not wanting to spend $ or sign any stars. Same for 2027. Can you agree to that?
Or are we going to hear the same old tune every year from here to eternity? Or next year they will have some excuse as to why they can't spend money.

Again, it will depend on where they are at achieving a critical mass of young talent.

I've clearly said before that I think getting both Wetherholt and Doyle to the major league team and at least progressing towards reaching their ceilings is going to be necessary before they are ready to compete again.

Realistically, IMO, after the 2027 season is about the earliest I see them being in position to define their most critical needs and make a move to add expensive veteran FAs to try to "win now."

[mattmitchl44]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again

And he still has a full no trade clause - so he dictates where he will go. IMO, the chances of him wanting to come to St. Louis are basically zero.

[juan good eye]

50 min. video posted about an hour ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6J5sHPOs

If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork

It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?

Based on what evidence?

Based on the pure # of teams that do it year after year. Many more examples of perpetual rebuilding than tanking and turning it around.

“Trust me bro”

[Ozziesfan41]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again

It would be dumb to trade for tatis. I know some are delusional and think the cardinals can trade guys like Donovan and burly and a catching prospect for him but it would cost them JJ, Doyle and probably Baez and others probably mcgreevy and or Mathew’s also. It would completely wreck the team

[fullswing]

I’m good with a rebuild but does it mean that we won’t spend all of next season reading complaints after every loss?

[Ozziesfan41]

I’m good with a rebuild but does it mean that we won’t spend all of next season reading complaints after every loss?

That happens even in World Series winning seasons so my guess is yes it will continue to happen gold fan and carp4cy will complain no matter what

[Cardinals4Life]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again

And he still has a full no trade clause - so he dictates where he will go. IMO, the chances of him wanting to come to St. Louis are basically zero.

Why?
We are supposedly building a young "critical mass" of talent.
We have bookoo $ to spend.
His dad was a very good player for us and is familiar with oth organization.

[Cardinals4Life]

50 min. video posted about an hour ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6J5sHPOs

If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork

It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?

Based on what evidence?

Based on the pure # of teams that do it year after year. Many more examples of perpetual rebuilding than tanking and turning it around.

“Trust me bro”

That's what they say about socialism too, guy. We can see how often that works.

[Ozziesfan41]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

But Tatis isn’t 30. He’s younger than half our young roster.
And if he’s traded this year, he will not be available again

And he still has a full no trade clause - so he dictates where he will go. IMO, the chances of him wanting to come to St. Louis are basically zero.

Why?
We are supposedly building a young "critical mass" of talent.
We have bookoo $ to spend.
His dad was a very good player for us and is familiar with oth organization.

They would have to trade their top young talent to get him and that would put the cardinals back at ground zero it would make some of the short sighted fans happy until they see the results but it wouldn’t be good for fans who want to see the cardinals be good again