Bloom needs to find a bargain #2 type FA starting pitcher

[Shady]

What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?

sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.

Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.

Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?

Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.

No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.

If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.

The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.

Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.

I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.

again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"



you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.

I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.

You're "seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding"? Do you honestly think Chaim Bloom or anyone else in the Cardinals FO reads your posts or cares what you think about their plan? Do you honestly believe you see the Cardinals' current competitive and financial situation more clearly than they do? Your obstinate refusal to listen to what Bloom has been saying is on you.

And sorry, your throwing out vague banalities like "acquire a bargain quality #2 type FA SP," "trade for a young, cost-controlled MOTO power hitter," or "trade Gorman and a bag of balls for a young, cost-controlled SP" isn't a serious plan or proposal, it's just meaningless (and usually unrealistic) platitudes.

You're definitely seeking something, but it isn't "solutions" . . .

Man, settle down, clown. This ain't cancer or nuclear war.

[Shady]

No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.

May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.

Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.

What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?

sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.

Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.

Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?

Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.

No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.

If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.

The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.

Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.

I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.

again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"



you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.

I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.

okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"

May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.

Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.

Obviously, you can't come up with any viable solution either for the Cardinals pitching staff to be any better than last season. Can you?

[NYCardsFan]

What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?

sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.

Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.

Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?

Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.

No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.

If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.

The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.

Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.

I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.

again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"



you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.

I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.

You're "seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding"? Do you honestly think Chaim Bloom or anyone else in the Cardinals FO reads your posts or cares what you think about their plan? Do you honestly believe you see the Cardinals' current competitive and financial situation more clearly than they do? Your obstinate refusal to listen to what Bloom has been saying is on you.

And sorry, your throwing out vague banalities like "acquire a bargain quality #2 type FA SP," "trade for a young, cost-controlled MOTO power hitter," or "trade Gorman and a bag of balls for a young, cost-controlled SP" isn't a serious plan or proposal, it's just meaningless (and usually unrealistic) platitudes.

You're definitely seeking something, but it isn't "solutions" . . .

Man, settle down, clown. This ain't cancer or nuclear war.

By all means, Maple, please carry on with your “seeking solutions attention” . . .

[Mort Gage]

May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.

Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.

What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?

sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.

Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.

Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?

Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.

No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.

If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.

The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.

Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.

I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.

again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"



you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.

I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.

okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"

May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.

Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.

Obviously, you can't come up with any viable solution either for the Cardinals pitching staff to be any better than last season. Can you?

If they wanted their staff to be better than last year they wouldn't have traded Gray. Bloom isn't going to come right out and say "we're going to stink" as the DeWitts are sensitive to ticket sales. But if you listen closely to Bloom a recurring theme is "long-term". That is, they are willing to sacrifice some wins in the short run if it leads to acquiring and properly developing high ceiling talent over time. Bloom has also spoken against shortcuts. That indicates he thinks big money FA signings at this time would be counterproductive and delay the building process.

They aren't trying to contend next year. Try switching focus. Look instead at development of Wetherholt, Herrera, Winn, etc. See if the refreshed minor league pitching development system pays dividends. Next year isn't one to agonize over Ws and Ls.

[rockondlouie]

Here's a name for you shady:

Cody Ponce

Former 2nd round pick of the Brewers.

Pitched in the KBO last season (29 GS: 1.89 ERA/180.66 IP) but looking to return to MLB.

[ScotchMIrish]

Bargain #2 starters. And the tooth fairy.

The best way to accomplish that is the amateur draft and international signings. Then develop and don't trade them away like we did with Alcantara and Gallen.

I put that on DeWitt. I don't think Mozeliak did that without pressure to win now or else.

That last paragraph is made up bull[shirt].

My guess is the Ozuna trade was MO’s attempt to make up for the Grichuk and Piscotty disappointments. That’s my guess.

But let’s assume your made up narrative is correct. A POBO who knows the players in his organization would tell Dewitt Sandy and Zac are off limits.

DeWitt's comments about the firing of Matheny revealed the truth. Winning isn't enough. Mozeliak didn't want to suffer the same fate so he traded the future for 2 seasons of playoffs.

It's not made up. DeWitt said it out loud with the cameras rolling.

Ozuna was traded for like 5 months before MM’s firing.

Also, Dewitt said, paraphrase, “being a few games over .500 isn’t enough.”

DeWitt explained why. Why would you not believe what he said?

[zuck698]

sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.

Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.

Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?

Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.

No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.

If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.

The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.

Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.

I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.

again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"



you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.

I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.

okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"

May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.

Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.

Duce what do you think about Merrill Kelly for innings in 26? Think he would sign a one year 15 mil contract? He can eat innings. Probably looking for longer term but I think he would be perfect for what they are looking for.

Duce, I also mentioned in another thread about trading with the Twins for Joe Kelly. Nice bounce back year and they have some youngsters that could take his place. He is getting close to making some money and the Twins are known to be a little tight. Thoughts on a Kelly trade?

at Merrill Kelly's age, do I expect him to replicate his steady 3 WAR output? No...not at 37, BUT....he's worth 15million...he'll eat the innings, and likely give you a chance to win...if your offense can outshine their putrid, bottom of the barrel performance from last year. 2-3 WAR is very possible from him in 2026...hell, chance he would exceed that, but not a good chance.

I like the MK suggestion...if you need a 2nd year on a contract from him, then certainly give it to him...you're likely to get his best effort in 2026, though...again father time isn't working for him...but he's doing one helluva job resisting.

edit ~ And "our Joe Kelly from 2009 draft"??? As a reliever? Didn't he miss all of 2025?

No Duce, brain cramp here! lol I was trying to say Joe Ryan. Guess I had some flashbacks of JK as I was typing!

[Shady]

Here's a name for you shady:

Cody Ponce

Former 2nd round pick of the Brewers.

Pitched in the KBO last season (29 GS: 1.89 ERA/180.66 IP) but looking to return to MLB.

Can the poor DeWitt afford him?

[rockondlouie]

Here's a name for you shady:

Cody Ponce

Former 2nd round pick of the Brewers.

Pitched in the KBO last season (29 GS: 1.89 ERA/180.66 IP) but looking to return to MLB.

Can the poor DeWitt afford him?

Depends on how much salary C. Bloom can unload ($20M already saved on Gray.....but how much will they have to eat to get rid of NADO?).

He won't command a huge deal, likely could get him for $15M/2 yrs unless they're multiple teams bidding as he's not a real high level free agent.