Competing now vs. rebuilding are conflicting goals

[Pura Vida]

Some want to gloss over this fact as they push the narrative that the Cardinals should do both - compete now and rebuild the player development organization.

But those goals are in conflict, they are not complimentary.

They obviously conflict on the very important questions of:

- Should they trade Donovan?
- Should they trade Gray?
- Should they trade Contreras?
- Maybe even should they trade Arenado?

If they are competing the answer to most/all of those is no. If they are rebuilding it is yes. You can't have it both ways.

And also on the question of:

- Who should they potentially sign as FAs and why?

If they try to compete and rebuild simultaneously, the net result will much more likely be that they will do both poorly rather than do both (or either) well.

3 of those players would only be salary dumps that wouldn’t bring back much in return, so the real is question is are we trying to field a major league team or just spend less.

THIS^

[Carp4Cy]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

I don’t disagree with you, except for one thing. The vets you can sign on one year deals are probably not much/any better than what Memphis and Springfield can provide. Decent vets will command multi year deals. Pitching is the exception, as the Cards farm lacks MLB ready pitchers who can deliver 150+ innings.

Well, on a small scale, how did Maton work out? Swimmingly it seems.

And when it comes to starting pitching, you can't assume unprovens in Memphis can handle it. Unlike watching Walker flail for a half year, you can't do that w starting pitching. Or else it will chew up your bullpen.

But as a strategy (possible improvements in 2026 and flippable items for the 2026 deadline) it's not bad. And, it's common...

I would even trade a low ceiling guy for a solid veteran SP if available. Say Pallante or Noot for Wacha or similar if KC decides to go cheap. He gives you more dependability, is relatively affordable, and could be extremely valuable at the deadline - unlike Noot or Pal.

[mattmitchl44]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

No quality vet is going to take a one year deal…

Pederson, 2021
Schwarber, 2021
Chapman, 2023
Quintana, 2022 and 2025
Maton 2025
Severino 2024
Ozuna, 2020
Shelby Miller, 2025
Carson Kelly, 2023

That's just off the top of my head...

They went to competitive teams

You are proposing that a quality vet who has multiple offers, sign a one year deal with a bad team so they can be traded in July

Yeah. I bet they are lining up to do that..

Quintana 2022 Pirates
Chapman 2023 Royals
Schwarber 2021 Nationals
Kelly 2023 Tigers
Pederson 2021 Cubs
Maton 2025 Cardinals.

You were saying...

From the prior year, most of those guys did not appear to be "quality vets" and half of them were insignificant in the year listed.

That's a hope and prayer strategy which isn't a basis for competing.

Most were very significant and productive in the years listed.

And yes, signing a vet to a one year deal probably means they weren't recently allstars.

And many rebuilding teams bring in vets for one year deals to hopefully bolster the roster and flip at the deadline.

Calm down, Mitch. You're not the king of rebuild strategy.

I have stated that I expect them to bring in cheap FAs on 1 or 2 year deals to potentially flip for more prospects in 2026. We agree on that.

I just don't agree that that is any plan for "competing" in 2026.

[Carp4Cy]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

No quality vet is going to take a one year deal…

Pederson, 2021
Schwarber, 2021
Chapman, 2023
Quintana, 2022 and 2025
Maton 2025
Severino 2024
Ozuna, 2020
Shelby Miller, 2025
Carson Kelly, 2023

That's just off the top of my head...

They went to competitive teams

You are proposing that a quality vet who has multiple offers, sign a one year deal with a bad team so they can be traded in July

Yeah. I bet they are lining up to do that..

Quintana 2022 Pirates
Chapman 2023 Royals
Schwarber 2021 Nationals
Kelly 2023 Tigers
Pederson 2021 Cubs
Maton 2025 Cardinals.

You were saying...

From the prior year, most of those guys did not appear to be "quality vets" and half of them were insignificant in the year listed.

That's a hope and prayer strategy which isn't a basis for competing.

Most were very significant and productive in the years listed.

And yes, signing a vet to a one year deal probably means they weren't recently allstars.

And many rebuilding teams bring in vets for one year deals to hopefully bolster the roster and flip at the deadline.

Calm down, Mitch. You're not the king of rebuild strategy.

I have stated that I expect them to bring in cheap FAs on 1 or 2 year deals to potentially flip for more prospects in 2026. We agree on that.

I just don't agree that that is any plan for "competing" in 2026.

"Plans" can be fluid. I hope Bloom is.

[Red Bird Classic]

Whole heartedly disagree.

They are not conflicting. You can do both. Making decisions on players isn't unique. It happens every year.

You can have it both ways..

To say otherwise shows lack of creativity and judgement.

That only works if you're the Dodgers or some other big money team.

Under current revenue system, without revenue sharing or caps, the strategy is unrealistic for the small-market Cardinals.

Maybe you can talk Elon Musk into buying the team and making them his vanity project were he loses tens of millions year after year, but the DeWitts aren't going there.

[mattmitchl44]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

No quality vet is going to take a one year deal…

Pederson, 2021
Schwarber, 2021
Chapman, 2023
Quintana, 2022 and 2025
Maton 2025
Severino 2024
Ozuna, 2020
Shelby Miller, 2025
Carson Kelly, 2023

That's just off the top of my head...

They went to competitive teams

You are proposing that a quality vet who has multiple offers, sign a one year deal with a bad team so they can be traded in July

Yeah. I bet they are lining up to do that..

Quintana 2022 Pirates
Chapman 2023 Royals
Schwarber 2021 Nationals
Kelly 2023 Tigers
Pederson 2021 Cubs
Maton 2025 Cardinals.

You were saying...

From the prior year, most of those guys did not appear to be "quality vets" and half of them were insignificant in the year listed.

That's a hope and prayer strategy which isn't a basis for competing.

Most were very significant and productive in the years listed.

And yes, signing a vet to a one year deal probably means they weren't recently allstars.

And many rebuilding teams bring in vets for one year deals to hopefully bolster the roster and flip at the deadline.

Calm down, Mitch. You're not the king of rebuild strategy.

I have stated that I expect them to bring in cheap FAs on 1 or 2 year deals to potentially flip for more prospects in 2026. We agree on that.

I just don't agree that that is any plan for "competing" in 2026.

"Plans" can be fluid. I hope Bloom is.

My point being:

1. They clearly were far from competitive last year.
2. Their competitiveness in 2026 goes down substantially when you move Gray, Donovan, Arenado, maybe Contreras.
3. Signing cheap FAs coming off of bad seasons doesn't make up for that.

So you are filling out the roster but not to be competitive.

[Red Bird Classic]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

I agree with signing FAs on one year deals, but they are never going to get to being competitive in 2026 based on those additions.

So, IMO, that is not trying to compete.

Well, let's remember how bad Miko, Pallante, Arenado, Fedde and several others were. And the team was 78-84.

I don't think the 2026 team, with the addition of FA vets, will win 100 games. But 82-87 could happen. And that's competitive.

I think there's this assumption that the team will automatically be worse than 2025. I don't think that's the case.

Fortunately, the rebuild isn't starting at zero like the 2012 Cubs.

If you like what we've been getting, then follow this plan because you're simply regurgitating the teams strategy for the last decade.

You may be smarter than DeWitt and MO, not a heavy lift, but you're not bringing home any WS flags with that plan.

[ecleme22]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

I agree with signing FAs on one year deals, but they are never going to get to being competitive in 2026 based on those additions.

So, IMO, that is not trying to compete.

Well, let's remember how bad Miko, Pallante, Arenado, Fedde and several others were. And the team was 78-84.

I don't think the 2026 team, with the addition of FA vets, will win 100 games. But 82-87 could happen. And that's competitive.

I think there's this assumption that the team will automatically be worse than 2025. I don't think that's the case.

Fortunately, the rebuild isn't starting at zero like the 2012 Cubs.

If you like what we've been getting, then follow this plan because you're simply regurgitating the teams strategy for the last decade.

You may be smarter than DeWitt and MO, not a heavy lift, but you're not bringing home any WS flags with that plan.

Name all the 1 year deals for STARTING players the Cards have signed from 2012-2025.

[Red Bird Classic]

Completely wrong premise by matt.

C. Bloom already has repaired Mo's broken minor league player development system and continues to add quality people to the system.

Nothing done at the big league level can disrupt that...........THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM IS NOW PRIMED to send quality players to the Cardinals!

He can now focus on dealing away veterans like NADO, S. Gray, Donny and maybe even WillyC for prospects or YOUNG MAJOR LEAGUE players with years of control............while STILL FIELDING A COMPETITVE, BUT PERHAPS NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM.

If he's able to save some payroll money dealing away those veterans contracts, then BDWJR (LIKELY) will allow him to re-invest that savings into the 2026 roster adding major league players via trades and smart, low cost free agency.

The 2026 payroll will likely settle somewhere in the $115-130M range...................NOT $200M.

If the Cardinals win 90 games or lose 90 games in 2026 how on earth does this setback the re-build?

AGAIN

THIS DOES NOTHING to disrupt the minor league system or halt the minors from funneling players to the Cardinals in this re-build!

How some can't see this is baffling.

What's baffling is that you think being competitive, while not even making the playoffs, is worth wasting recourses on. Who cares if the team wins 80 or 60 games in 2026? They're not going to compete for the league title and that's all that really matters.

[Red Bird Classic]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

I agree with signing FAs on one year deals, but they are never going to get to being competitive in 2026 based on those additions.

So, IMO, that is not trying to compete.

Well, let's remember how bad Miko, Pallante, Arenado, Fedde and several others were. And the team was 78-84.

I don't think the 2026 team, with the addition of FA vets, will win 100 games. But 82-87 could happen. And that's competitive.

I think there's this assumption that the team will automatically be worse than 2025. I don't think that's the case.

Fortunately, the rebuild isn't starting at zero like the 2012 Cubs.

If you like what we've been getting, then follow this plan because you're simply regurgitating the teams strategy for the last decade.

You may be smarter than DeWitt and MO, not a heavy lift, but you're not bringing home any WS flags with that plan.

Name all the 1 year deals for STARTING players the Cards have signed from 2012-2025.

I'm not talking about signing one year players. I'm talking about your insistence that the team try to be "competitive" every year, even though they have almost zero chance of winning a title even if we added these players.

Instead, the team should spend that money signing some INFAs or hiring better development coaches, etc..

[rockondlouie]

Completely wrong premise by matt.

C. Bloom already has repaired Mo's broken minor league player development system and continues to add quality people to the system.

Nothing done at the big league level can disrupt that...........THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM IS NOW PRIMED to send quality players to the Cardinals!

He can now focus on dealing away veterans like NADO, S. Gray, Donny and maybe even WillyC for prospects or YOUNG MAJOR LEAGUE players with years of control............while STILL FIELDING A COMPETITVE, BUT PERHAPS NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM.

If he's able to save some payroll money dealing away those veterans contracts, then BDWJR (LIKELY) will allow him to re-invest that savings into the 2026 roster adding major league players via trades and smart, low cost free agency.

The 2026 payroll will likely settle somewhere in the $115-130M range...................NOT $200M.

If the Cardinals win 90 games or lose 90 games in 2026 how on earth does this setback the re-build?

AGAIN

THIS DOES NOTHING to disrupt the minor league system or halt the minors from funneling players to the Cardinals in this re-build!

How some can't see this is baffling.

What's baffling is that you think being competitive, while not even making the playoffs, is worth wasting recourses on. Who cares if the team wins 80 or 60 games in 2026? They're not going to compete for the league title and that's all that really matters.

Wasting?

Not sure why some seem to think the Cardinals should now be placed in the same sad sac, poormouth category as the Pirates, A's, Rockies, ect.....when BDWJr has reaped enormous returns during his tenure as principle owner?

$110-130M 2026 payroll in no way, shape or form "waste" resources.

And you should care how many games the 2026 team wins since BDWJr has ALWAYS made one thing clear......

PAYROLL is tied 100% to ATTENDANCE!

So if you want to see him up that payroll back to $180M after the system starts churning out quality prospects, then you need to at least put a decent team on the field in 2026/27 that keeps the fan bases interest and at least 2+M coming to games.

Win those 60 games and attendance will be below late 1970's level while payroll will never see $180M again.

[zuck698]

Completely wrong premise by matt.

C. Bloom already has repaired Mo's broken minor league player development system and continues to add quality people to the system.

Nothing done at the big league level can disrupt that...........THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM IS NOW PRIMED to send quality players to the Cardinals!

He can now focus on dealing away veterans like NADO, S. Gray, Donny and maybe even WillyC for prospects or YOUNG MAJOR LEAGUE players with years of control............while STILL FIELDING A COMPETITVE, BUT PERHAPS NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM.

If he's able to save some payroll money dealing away those veterans contracts, then BDWJR (LIKELY) will allow him to re-invest that savings into the 2026 roster adding major league players via trades and smart, low cost free agency.

The 2026 payroll will likely settle somewhere in the $115-130M range...................NOT $200M.

If the Cardinals win 90 games or lose 90 games in 2026 how on earth does this setback the re-build?

AGAIN

THIS DOES NOTHING to disrupt the minor league system or halt the minors from funneling players to the Cardinals in this re-build!

How some can't see this is baffling.

What's baffling is that you think being competitive, while not even making the playoffs, is worth wasting recourses on. Who cares if the team wins 80 or 60 games in 2026? They're not going to compete for the league title and that's all that really matters.

I totally disagree. I would prefer to watch an 80 game winner vs. a 60 game winner any day! And nobody says you have to spend crazy money, but I will never sign up for a team that isn't trying to win and at least be worth watching. So many people here are afraid of spending a little of Bill's money and I just cannot for the life of me understand why? Signing a few decent free agents and building thru prospects can actully coincide. And yea, maybe you will only win 80 games, but at least I will have the will to at least watch. But I will not watch or spend a dime on 2019 to 2022 Pirates who averaged 60 win seasons. No thank you.

[zuck698]

Completely wrong premise by matt.

C. Bloom already has repaired Mo's broken minor league player development system and continues to add quality people to the system.

Nothing done at the big league level can disrupt that...........THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM IS NOW PRIMED to send quality players to the Cardinals!

He can now focus on dealing away veterans like NADO, S. Gray, Donny and maybe even WillyC for prospects or YOUNG MAJOR LEAGUE players with years of control............while STILL FIELDING A COMPETITVE, BUT PERHAPS NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM.

If he's able to save some payroll money dealing away those veterans contracts, then BDWJR (LIKELY) will allow him to re-invest that savings into the 2026 roster adding major league players via trades and smart, low cost free agency.

The 2026 payroll will likely settle somewhere in the $115-130M range...................NOT $200M.

If the Cardinals win 90 games or lose 90 games in 2026 how on earth does this setback the re-build?

AGAIN

THIS DOES NOTHING to disrupt the minor league system or halt the minors from funneling players to the Cardinals in this re-build!

How some can't see this is baffling.

What's baffling is that you think being competitive, while not even making the playoffs, is worth wasting recourses on. Who cares if the team wins 80 or 60 games in 2026? They're not going to compete for the league title and that's all that really matters.

I totally disagree. I would prefer to watch an 80 game winner vs. a 60 game winner any day! And nobody says you have to spend crazy money, but I will never sign up for a team that isn't trying to win and at least be worth watching. So many people here are afraid of spending a little of Bill's money and I just cannot for the life of me understand why? Signing a few decent free agents and building thru prospects can actully coincide. And yea, maybe you will only win 80 games, but at least I will have the will to at least watch. But I will not watch or spend a dime on 2019 to 2022 Pirates who averaged 60 win seasons. No thank you.

I think the last 10 years of MO have made many forget that you can actually build a team several ways and not just one.

[Strummer Jones]

I'm going to say it...I buy the party line. It's possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.

We weren't THAT far from a play-off spot last year. Think....

-If we didn't keep Mikolas in the rotation all last year and replaced him with a guy who put up Liberatore-like numbers.
-If we replaced Fedde with McGreevy sooner
-If we didn't let Roycroft or Fernandez pitch 50 innings last year
-If Herrera doesn't spend significant time on the IL (and gets more DH AB's)...

We're probably where Cincinnati is.

We'd have also probably been bounced as quickly as they were...but we're not the Twins or the Rockies. We've never had a problem *finding* talent, but we have had a problem *developing* that talent. I think if we can get that pipeline going again, then we're back in business. Seems like the guys making the decisions are committed to doing that. As we all well know, that's always been our recipe for success. Develop those role players well, those #3-#5 starters, relief pitching, those secondary and tertiary line-up threats, and then you go out and get those aces and MOTO bats like Edmonds, Rolen, Carpenter, Larry Walker, etc. Spend money where there's likely to be a high probability for a good return on investment.

I also need to acknowledge the 800lb gorilla in the room--we're probably selling parts. Guys like Donnie and Sonny. That will hurt. But I'm also confident that JJ will replace most of Donovan's overall production. I'm excited to...hopefully...see what kind of current/future assets we can get to Donovan. I'm optimistic that we'll get a pitcher that will help stabilize the rotation this year and in the future. Probably not an ace...but maybe someone like Lance Lynn was for us in the beginning of his career. And I also feel confident that we'll be able to move Sonny for some parts that will be able to contribute in some way.

I also feel confident that the next crop of kids to come up from Springfield/Memphis will come to St. Louis READY to play. Is that to say that they'll be finished products? No. But I feel good that they'll be ready to contribute when they do arrive. I don't see another Jordan Walker situation happening under the new watch.

I know that it's not as easy as it sounds. But I feel confident in knowing that these new folks understand the assignment.

There's no delusions of competing to play for a title this year...but I actually have some optimism this year, unlike last year. I think if we can get in on a wildcard this year, that's a success. With young, inexperienced guys? I think that's a success no matter how you draw it up. That gives them experience in a pennant race, and hopefully gives them a blueprint on what it takes to succeed further. I want them to get that hunger to get in and do damage. Now...if all the sudden the DeWitts and Bloom decide to spend like drunken sheiks over the next couple months, then yeah, title or bust, but I feel optimism. Baseball hope springs eternal in November.

[Carp4Cy]

You can compete now by signing vets to one year deals.

No vet should be picked up by way of trading prospects, nor be the primary return for any of our trades (the exception would be an Arenado for Castellanos deal if Bloom can’t get anything for NA…).


This strategy is pro today and pro rebuild. If the team is out of it, you flip all the vets at the deadline…

No quality vet is going to take a one year deal…

Pederson, 2021
Schwarber, 2021
Chapman, 2023
Quintana, 2022 and 2025
Maton 2025
Severino 2024
Ozuna, 2020
Shelby Miller, 2025
Carson Kelly, 2023

That's just off the top of my head...

They went to competitive teams

You are proposing that a quality vet who has multiple offers, sign a one year deal with a bad team so they can be traded in July

Yeah. I bet they are lining up to do that..

Quintana 2022 Pirates
Chapman 2023 Royals
Schwarber 2021 Nationals
Kelly 2023 Tigers
Pederson 2021 Cubs
Maton 2025 Cardinals.

You were saying...

From the prior year, most of those guys did not appear to be "quality vets" and half of them were insignificant in the year listed.

That's a hope and prayer strategy which isn't a basis for competing.

Most were very significant and productive in the years listed.

And yes, signing a vet to a one year deal probably means they weren't recently allstars.

And many rebuilding teams bring in vets for one year deals to hopefully bolster the roster and flip at the deadline.

Calm down, Mitch. You're not the king of rebuild strategy.

I have stated that I expect them to bring in cheap FAs on 1 or 2 year deals to potentially flip for more prospects in 2026. We agree on that.

I just don't agree that that is any plan for "competing" in 2026.

"Plans" can be fluid. I hope Bloom is.

My point being:

1. They clearly were far from competitive last year.
2. Their competitiveness in 2026 goes down substantially when you move Gray, Donovan, Arenado, maybe Contreras.
3. Signing cheap FAs coming off of bad seasons doesn't make up for that.

So you are filling out the roster but not to be competitive.

"1. They clearly were far from competitive last year."
Depends on perspective - We were and then we weren't. Dump Fedde and Mikolas and Pal and replace with full seasons of McGreevey and a couple .500 SPs then keep the bullpen intact and last year could look a lot different.

That said, a few things went right that might not recur - outstanding bullpen at least until we traded much of it. Gray and McGreevey won games at a slightly lucky rate. SPs were healthy (though 2.5 of them consistently sucked). On the flip side, not that much else went right - maybe some of the existing starters actually take steps forward and decide to have a career year in 2026 - it hasn't happened under Oli but used to happen routinely with Tony. There is opporutity for a lot of players who played below their career norms to revert back to or above the means - Nado (if we can't trade him), Noot (if we can't trade him), Gorman (unlikely but maybe), Walker (sooner or later), a Catcher, Scott and Winn could take big steps forward with the bat. Herrera staying healthy and going off for 30 HRs, .800 OPS across 150 games. Certainly Libby has ceiling remaining to capture. Maybe Leahy or someone else surprises like a Bottenfield, Simontacchi, or Marquis and wins double digits.

"2. Their competitiveness in 2026 goes down substantially when you move Gray, Donovan, Arenado, maybe Contreras."
This is true, unless you get truly production ready or young proven talent back in return. Or find the return isn't even there and decide to wait for the trade deadline.

"3. Signing cheap FAs coming off of bad seasons doesn't make up for that."
Maybe not, but if Bloom could make some trades for those players with "4-5" years of control who are nearly the same thing as MLB ready prospects, that might change the 2026 landscape by a lot. Would need to get creative with 3 ways trades.

Yes its "hope", but there is a path here to put enough on the roster to at least give "hope" a chance and still not hurt the future by 1 iota.

[rockondlouie]

Completely wrong premise by matt.

C. Bloom already has repaired Mo's broken minor league player development system and continues to add quality people to the system.

Nothing done at the big league level can disrupt that...........THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM IS NOW PRIMED to send quality players to the Cardinals!

He can now focus on dealing away veterans like NADO, S. Gray, Donny and maybe even WillyC for prospects or YOUNG MAJOR LEAGUE players with years of control............while STILL FIELDING A COMPETITVE, BUT PERHAPS NOT A PLAYOFF TEAM.

If he's able to save some payroll money dealing away those veterans contracts, then BDWJR (LIKELY) will allow him to re-invest that savings into the 2026 roster adding major league players via trades and smart, low cost free agency.

The 2026 payroll will likely settle somewhere in the $115-130M range...................NOT $200M.

If the Cardinals win 90 games or lose 90 games in 2026 how on earth does this setback the re-build?

AGAIN

THIS DOES NOTHING to disrupt the minor league system or halt the minors from funneling players to the Cardinals in this re-build!

How some can't see this is baffling.

What's baffling is that you think being competitive, while not even making the playoffs, is worth wasting recourses on. Who cares if the team wins 80 or 60 games in 2026? They're not going to compete for the league title and that's all that really matters.

I totally disagree. I would prefer to watch an 80 game winner vs. a 60 game winner any day! And nobody says you have to spend crazy money, but I will never sign up for a team that isn't trying to win and at least be worth watching. So many people here are afraid of spending a little of Bill's money and I just cannot for the life of me understand why? Signing a few decent free agents and building thru prospects can actully coincide. And yea, maybe you will only win 80 games, but at least I will have the will to at least watch. But I will not watch or spend a dime on 2019 to 2022 Pirates who averaged 60 win seasons. No thank you.

100% zuck

As your post proves fans will still come out and support an 80 win team, they'll abandon a 60 win team. Even though they were never that bad, we have the 1970's as proof Cardinals fan don't support a loser. And there's way more entertainment options for their dollars today than there was in the 70's.