Kyrou - benched

[TheJackBurton]

One thing that has to be taken into account is these are humans and fatigue and sickness can come into play.

Last night was game 9 in 15 days.

We don't know who has the flu or a bug, or quite frankly has dead legs.

Every team is going to go through this exact same funk at some point during this season so it's not an excuse the Blues can use, but it is a simple fact of life.

That being said he was still completely invisible against Washington and might as well have been in the press box for that one as well.

[succinct712]

One thing that has to be taken into account is these are humans and fatigue and sickness can come into play.

Last night was game 9 in 15 days.

We don't know who has the flu or a bug, or quite frankly has dead legs.

Every team is going to go through this exact same funk at some point during this season so it's not an excuse the Blues can use, but it is a simple fact of life.

That being said he was still completely invisible against Washington and might as well have been in the press box for that one as well.

I was actually thinking about this when they were giving up 5 goals a night. There are quite a few bugs going around and they rarely say anything or use it as an excuse. I was kind of waiting for someone to say that a bug was hitting the locker room but nothing yet. I guess I want it to be a bug or this team is just not very good right now.

[desertrat23]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

The problem is that Kyrou isn't a special case in my opinion, off the top of my head Pierre Luc Debois, Patrik Laine, and Johnathan Huberdeau come to mind as some players that have the same question marks with similar expectations (and salaries). Hell you might even be able to toss in David Perron there too before he left STL the first time.

IMO this just happens sometimes, maturation is a process it happens later for some than others. I don't fault the Blues for looking at the data and saying this makes sense and being surprised that the 2-way game is a little slow. I hate scapegoating in team sports though, it will always rub me the wrong way. There are so few players in this league who are literal instant offense without dependency.

I feel like your strongest point is scapegoating in team sports, there is real meat to that one as a general principle so I can understand why that is prompting your argument.

BUT on the flip side, intelligent processors of observation including his immediately responsible coaches that something critical is missing with this player, as opposed to the other players. You should also appreciate that for the last now seven consecutive seasons we have been hearing the pro-Kyrou case. It usually goes like, "these stats show how critical he is and you're cutting off your nose to spite your face if you think he is the issue." I completely absorb the argument. I still land where I land on this player, and that's a good faith calculus of all I know about hockey and competition in general.

My counter to that is you need to score to win games and Kyrou has shown he CAN do that, there are offensive specialists in this league who will never be great two way players. Good teams can afford those players, it's a team game Kyrou was doing as good as anyone in the first 10 games.

It seems disingenuous to say that Kyrou has not made good strides in his two way game the last 100 games or so (basically since Berube left). He will never be the heart and soul guy you want him to be but unless you can finish then none of that matters. It's why players like Neighbours are so vitally important to teams but not everyone is that type of player. This should be acceptable for good teams.

The Kyrou debate (pro and con) is the most bizarre thing I've seen in the Blues' universe in decades. He's such a polarizing guy and I just don't get it. What's interesting to me is the discourse I see from time to time about him -- one of these is you, some of it is what I've seen on Twitter:
"He will never be the heart and soul guy you want him to be..."
"Not every hockey player has to be physical..."
"You scratch players off of one game?"
"Scratching him is delusional/the organization is pathetic/our coach is an idiot..."

Sorry, but I would expect the highest-paid guy on the team to be a "heart and soul" guy. "Good" teams also don't have their top-dollar guys have so many limitations. Kyrou is what he is. A streaky, offense-first guy who seems a little too sensitive and is good, but not great offensively. Nothing I've seen from him indicates that he can't be replaced.
If he'

So I would still maintain that the first two quotes you have above is correct, I have no issues with a game in the press box if Monty thinks it will work. My issue is more at the long term scapegoating that everyone lays on a single player with a track record for putting up more goals than anyone else on the team over the last 3 years. It's fine to critique a part of Kyrou's game, but to single out and apply so much ill will against a single person on a +20 person team is comical. I doubt Jordan would even disagree with you if you told what you thought he could do better.

You cannot win hockey games with grit, heart, soul, <insert whatever character word you want> purely. You must at some point deposit the puck inside of the net to win games and Kyrou can help with that. We have a character players like Schenn who are basically exactly what you are asking for with more offense, those players with that fire in their belly AND skill to force the issue are generational type talents. This is their JOB, some days you don't feel like working or you have a bad day at work I'm sure. Sure they are getting paid a lot to do it but that is the "market" for their services and I can't blame them for that.

Everyone with similar stat lines are making more than what Kyrou makes moving forward right, wrong, or indifferent.

Again, who in the organization is “scapegoating” Jordan Kyrou? He’s been healthy scratched once in the second night of a B2B against Buffalo. We’re not talking Saturday night at home against Chicago here. The organization has given him seven years of a leash and the richest contract on the team. They’ve done their part.

And I’m sorry if he has days where he doesn’t feel like doing his job. That doesn’t mean he gets to let up on his effort. Have you ever known STL sports fans to take to a player who “doesn’t feel like working” some days? No. Blues fans have shown they’ll put up with a lot over the history of this team, but they’re not going to take to a guy who loafs, or is perceived to loaf.

[seattleblue]

I have never been a fan of Kyrou but 2nd half of last year he was really starting to make me come round.

This year he is back to his floating/not back checking self.

The fact we have seen that he can play a more complete game and be a difference maker is just really disappointing.

He needs to go.

The problem with that is, we saw that he can actually be that player.

The goal he scored against Dallas was a 200 ft goal that started with him breaking up a great shot opportunity, then making a great outlet pass, skating his (donkey) off up the ice, finding open ice, making his deke, then putting a shot right above the pads and under the glove.

That's what he can do.

Against Edmonton he looked like Alexander Daigle in his final season. Essentially just collecting a paycheck.

There's no reason with his speed and shot he shouldn't be creating multiple scoring chances every single game. He should be a threat almost every single time he steps on the ice, but he isn't. That play against Dallas is what leaves you wanting and expecting more, but it is more the exception than the rule.

Thing is I really like the player. 30 goal scorers aren't easy to find, especially with his speed. However if he isn't scoring there are too many games where he becomes invisible and that's just not good enough.

I still remember my “Wow, Kyrou COULD be great moment”………I was at the last game of the 2022 playoff series against Colorado. Game 6 tied and Kyrou had a shift in the last 10 minutes of regulation where he looked like Connor Mcdavid. He wanted the puck and he wanted to end the game. I have never seen him that fast or that dominant looking. He didn’t score, but if I remember it correctly, he broke in alone and almost scored. But for that one shift, he looked like a superstar. But the next shift, he was back to normal, and a few minutes later, Helm scores on the sieve named Ville Husso, and I have never seen Kyrou look like that again. He’s very talented, but he is an absolute tease, and a very frustrating player.

I recall the fastest player in the NHL (Kyrou) just standing there while McKinnon scored a spectacular goal blowing by him that should have won the series the game prior, Game 5

[Frank Underwood]

I have never been a fan of Kyrou but 2nd half of last year he was really starting to make me come round.

This year he is back to his floating/not back checking self.

The fact we have seen that he can play a more complete game and be a difference maker is just really disappointing.

He needs to go.

The problem with that is, we saw that he can actually be that player.

The goal he scored against Dallas was a 200 ft goal that started with him breaking up a great shot opportunity, then making a great outlet pass, skating his (donkey) off up the ice, finding open ice, making his deke, then putting a shot right above the pads and under the glove.

That's what he can do.

Against Edmonton he looked like Alexander Daigle in his final season. Essentially just collecting a paycheck.

There's no reason with his speed and shot he shouldn't be creating multiple scoring chances every single game. He should be a threat almost every single time he steps on the ice, but he isn't. That play against Dallas is what leaves you wanting and expecting more, but it is more the exception than the rule.

Thing is I really like the player. 30 goal scorers aren't easy to find, especially with his speed. However if he isn't scoring there are too many games where he becomes invisible and that's just not good enough.

I still remember my “Wow, Kyrou COULD be great moment”………I was at the last game of the 2022 playoff series against Colorado. Game 6 tied and Kyrou had a shift in the last 10 minutes of regulation where he looked like Connor Mcdavid. He wanted the puck and he wanted to end the game. I have never seen him that fast or that dominant looking. He didn’t score, but if I remember it correctly, he broke in alone and almost scored. But for that one shift, he looked like a superstar. But the next shift, he was back to normal, and a few minutes later, Helm scores on the sieve named Ville Husso, and I have never seen Kyrou look like that again. He’s very talented, but he is an absolute tease, and a very frustrating player.

I recall the fastest player in the NHL (Kyrou) just standing there while McKinnon scored a spectacular goal blowing by him that should have won the series the game prior, Game 5

Yep…..the enigma that is Jordan Kyrou

[ManitobaBlues]

I hope the team does trade him somewhere so he can finally flourish. Why he’s always the scapegoat with so much other dead weight on this team is truly baffling.

are you from Toronto by chance or near there ??

[netboy65]

I hope the team does trade him somewhere so he can finally flourish. Why he’s always the scapegoat with so much other dead weight on this team is truly baffling.

are you from Toronto by chance or near there ??

Nope. Right here in the StL

[Cardsfanforlife]

kadri is 35 yrs old, he doesnt fit the blues. unless someone thinks we can win the cup this yr.

[John Cocktoastin]

Jordan Kyrou is not an enigma. He is what he is.

A loafer who only puts in an effort when the puck is put on a tee for him.

That's all he ever was and all he'll ever be.

Don't think about it too much.

[hotrivets]

Jordan Kyrou is not an enigma. He is what he is.

A loafer who only puts in an effort when the puck is put on a tee for him.

That's all he ever was and all he'll ever be.

Don't think about it too much.

He will show some hustle for a game or two and then we all know what will happen.

[kimzey59]

Well, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone; but Kyrou's back in tonight(Texier's sitting, Hofer gets the net again following the shutout).
https://x.com/MDeFranks/status/1987181107675066569

[desertrat23]

Well, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone; but Kyrou's back in tonight(Texier's sitting, Hofer gets the net again following the shutout).
https://x.com/MDeFranks/status/1987181107675066569

As expected. All the Kyrou fanboys are still up in arms about it.