Kyrou - benched

[Cardsfanforlife]

What about Buch!?!?!?!?

personally , now im not a coach, but , personally, id take 10 kyrous over 1 buch, i feel like buch contracted aids over the summer.

rangers ripped us off, they got his contract off the books and a second round pick to boot!

[TBone]

NHL Rumour Report
@NHLRumourReport
·
11h
Frank Seravalli: Re Blues: Doug Armstrong doesn't sit on his hands; keep an eye on the Blues in the next 5-10 days; my understanding is they have been pretty agressive already - Frankly Hockey (11/6)

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I wonder if Army was already fed up with Kyrou when he acquired Mailoux from Montreal and now he's going to finish the job?

[Kilokaai]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

The problem is that Kyrou isn't a special case in my opinion, off the top of my head Pierre Luc Debois, Patrik Laine, and Johnathan Huberdeau come to mind as some players that have the same question marks with similar expectations (and salaries). Hell you might even be able to toss in David Perron there too before he left STL the first time.

IMO this just happens sometimes, maturation is a process it happens later for some than others. I don't fault the Blues for looking at the data and saying this makes sense and being surprised that the 2-way game is a little slow. I hate scapegoating in team sports though, it will always rub me the wrong way. There are so few players in this league who are literal instant offense without dependency.

I feel like your strongest point is scapegoating in team sports, there is real meat to that one as a general principle so I can understand why that is prompting your argument.

BUT on the flip side, intelligent processors of observation including his immediately responsible coaches that something critical is missing with this player, as opposed to the other players. You should also appreciate that for the last now seven consecutive seasons we have been hearing the pro-Kyrou case. It usually goes like, "these stats show how critical he is and you're cutting off your nose to spite your face if you think he is the issue." I completely absorb the argument. I still land where I land on this player, and that's a good faith calculus of all I know about hockey and competition in general.

My counter to that is you need to score to win games and Kyrou has shown he CAN do that, there are offensive specialists in this league who will never be great two way players. Good teams can afford those players, it's a team game Kyrou was doing as good as anyone in the first 10 games.

It seems disingenuous to say that Kyrou has not made good strides in his two way game the last 100 games or so (basically since Berube left). He will never be the heart and soul guy you want him to be but unless you can finish then none of that matters. It's why players like Neighbours are so vitally important to teams but not everyone is that type of player. This should be acceptable for good teams.

The Kyrou debate (pro and con) is the most bizarre thing I've seen in the Blues' universe in decades. He's such a polarizing guy and I just don't get it. What's interesting to me is the discourse I see from time to time about him -- one of these is you, some of it is what I've seen on Twitter:
"He will never be the heart and soul guy you want him to be..."
"Not every hockey player has to be physical..."
"You scratch players off of one game?"
"Scratching him is delusional/the organization is pathetic/our coach is an idiot..."

Sorry, but I would expect the highest-paid guy on the team to be a "heart and soul" guy. "Good" teams also don't have their top-dollar guys have so many limitations. Kyrou is what he is. A streaky, offense-first guy who seems a little too sensitive and is good, but not great offensively. Nothing I've seen from him indicates that he can't be replaced.
If he'

So I would still maintain that the first two quotes you have above is correct, I have no issues with a game in the press box if Monty thinks it will work. My issue is more at the long term scapegoating that everyone lays on a single player with a track record for putting up more goals than anyone else on the team over the last 3 years. It's fine to critique a part of Kyrou's game, but to single out and apply so much ill will against a single person on a +20 person team is comical. I doubt Jordan would even disagree with you if you told what you thought he could do better.

You cannot win hockey games with grit, heart, soul, <insert whatever character word you want> purely. You must at some point deposit the puck inside of the net to win games and Kyrou can help with that. We have a character players like Schenn who are basically exactly what you are asking for with more offense, those players with that fire in their belly AND skill to force the issue are generational type talents. This is their JOB, some days you don't feel like working or you have a bad day at work I'm sure. Sure they are getting paid a lot to do it but that is the "market" for their services and I can't blame them for that.

Everyone with similar stat lines are making more than what Kyrou makes moving forward right, wrong, or indifferent.

[John Cocktoastin]

Army has made it clear it's on the players (and himself/management) to get this team right.

Link

Kyrou is on double-secret probation. That no trade clause is getting more paper thin every shift and every press box assignment.

They are forcing his hand - to either play like an NHLer or request a trade.

[TheJackBurton]

I have never been a fan of Kyrou but 2nd half of last year he was really starting to make me come round.

This year he is back to his floating/not back checking self.

The fact we have seen that he can play a more complete game and be a difference maker is just really disappointing.

He needs to go.

The problem with that is, we saw that he can actually be that player.

The goal he scored against Dallas was a 200 ft goal that started with him breaking up a great shot opportunity, then making a great outlet pass, skating his (donkey) off up the ice, finding open ice, making his deke, then putting a shot right above the pads and under the glove.

That's what he can do.

Against Edmonton he looked like Alexander Daigle in his final season. Essentially just collecting a paycheck.

There's no reason with his speed and shot he shouldn't be creating multiple scoring chances every single game. He should be a threat almost every single time he steps on the ice, but he isn't. That play against Dallas is what leaves you wanting and expecting more, but it is more the exception than the rule.

Thing is I really like the player. 30 goal scorers aren't easy to find, especially with his speed. However if he isn't scoring there are too many games where he becomes invisible and that's just not good enough.

[Frank Underwood]

I have never been a fan of Kyrou but 2nd half of last year he was really starting to make me come round.

This year he is back to his floating/not back checking self.

The fact we have seen that he can play a more complete game and be a difference maker is just really disappointing.

He needs to go.

The problem with that is, we saw that he can actually be that player.

The goal he scored against Dallas was a 200 ft goal that started with him breaking up a great shot opportunity, then making a great outlet pass, skating his (donkey) off up the ice, finding open ice, making his deke, then putting a shot right above the pads and under the glove.

That's what he can do.

Against Edmonton he looked like Alexander Daigle in his final season. Essentially just collecting a paycheck.

There's no reason with his speed and shot he shouldn't be creating multiple scoring chances every single game. He should be a threat almost every single time he steps on the ice, but he isn't. That play against Dallas is what leaves you wanting and expecting more, but it is more the exception than the rule.

Thing is I really like the player. 30 goal scorers aren't easy to find, especially with his speed. However if he isn't scoring there are too many games where he becomes invisible and that's just not good enough.

I still remember my “Wow, Kyrou COULD be great moment”………I was at the last game of the 2022 playoff series against Colorado. Game 6 tied and Kyrou had a shift in the last 10 minutes of regulation where he looked like Connor Mcdavid. He wanted the puck and he wanted to end the game. I have never seen him that fast or that dominant looking. He didn’t score, but if I remember it correctly, he broke in alone and almost scored. But for that one shift, he looked like a superstar. But the next shift, he was back to normal, and a few minutes later, Helm scores on the sieve named Ville Husso, and I have never seen Kyrou look like that again. He’s very talented, but he is an absolute tease, and a very frustrating player.

[TheJackBurton]

I have never been a fan of Kyrou but 2nd half of last year he was really starting to make me come round.

This year he is back to his floating/not back checking self.

The fact we have seen that he can play a more complete game and be a difference maker is just really disappointing.

He needs to go.

The problem with that is, we saw that he can actually be that player.

The goal he scored against Dallas was a 200 ft goal that started with him breaking up a great shot opportunity, then making a great outlet pass, skating his (donkey) off up the ice, finding open ice, making his deke, then putting a shot right above the pads and under the glove.

That's what he can do.

Against Edmonton he looked like Alexander Daigle in his final season. Essentially just collecting a paycheck.

There's no reason with his speed and shot he shouldn't be creating multiple scoring chances every single game. He should be a threat almost every single time he steps on the ice, but he isn't. That play against Dallas is what leaves you wanting and expecting more, but it is more the exception than the rule.

Thing is I really like the player. 30 goal scorers aren't easy to find, especially with his speed. However if he isn't scoring there are too many games where he becomes invisible and that's just not good enough.

I still remember my “Wow, Kyrou COULD be great moment”………I was at the last game of the 2022 playoff series against Colorado. Game 6 tied and Kyrou had a shift in the last 10 minutes of regulation where he looked like Connor Mcdavid. He wanted the puck and he wanted to end the game. I have never seen him that fast or that dominant looking. He didn’t score, but if I remember it correctly, he broke in alone and almost scored. But for that one shift, he looked like a superstar. But the next shift, he was back to normal, and a few minutes later, Helm scores on the sieve named Ville Husso, and I have never seen Kyrou look like that again. He’s very talented, but he is an absolute tease, and a very frustrating player.

Yep, I remember exactly what you are talking about Frank.

That's what you gets you excited and then games like Edmonton leave you scratching your head.

[Pierre McGuire]

Kyrou for Kadri! LETS GO!!!

[Aesa]

Kyrou for Kadri! LETS GO!!!

The villagers would storm Enterprise Center with torches and pitchforks, not for trading Kyrou but for doing it for [fork]ing Kadri.

[Pierre McGuire]

Kyrou for Kadri! LETS GO!!!

The villagers would storm Enterprise Center with torches and pitchforks, not for trading Kyrou but for doing it for [fork]ing Kadri.

That’s a meltdown id love to see. With that said, Kadri could help us for sure.

[hotrivets]

He is not going to change- he does not like hard work and contact and does not believe he should have to contribute those. It's possible some other team would have the assets to allow him to be a floating sniper but we do not.

[Aesa]

Kyrou for Kadri! LETS GO!!!

The villagers would storm Enterprise Center with torches and pitchforks, not for trading Kyrou but for doing it for [fork]ing Kadri.

That’s a meltdown id love to see. With that said, Kadri could help us for sure.

While I agree we could use someone with his skills, adding Kadri to this team with his history involving the Blues would ruin what little good chemistry we have.

[Pierre McGuire]

Kyrou for Kadri! LETS GO!!!

The villagers would storm Enterprise Center with torches and pitchforks, not for trading Kyrou but for doing it for [fork]ing Kadri.

That’s a meltdown id love to see. With that said, Kadri could help us for sure.

While I agree we could use someone with his skills, adding Kadri to this team with his history involving the Blues would ruin what little good chemistry we have.

Or maybe its the “Faaaaahk you” from management that some of the core players need

[Aesa]

Kyrou for Kadri! LETS GO!!!

The villagers would storm Enterprise Center with torches and pitchforks, not for trading Kyrou but for doing it for [fork]ing Kadri.

That’s a meltdown id love to see. With that said, Kadri could help us for sure.

While I agree we could use someone with his skills, adding Kadri to this team with his history involving the Blues would ruin what little good chemistry we have.

Or maybe its the “Faaaaahk you” from management that some of the core players need

In his case, that is doubtful.

[LGB73]

You can't win regularly when one of your "best" forwards is disengaged from playing sound hockey night in and night out. He wants to be an NHLer. He wants the paycheck. But he wants it at minimal effort and sacrifice. That's not the type of player this team needs and certainly not come the playoffs.
He's got the skill and natural ability, the will and desire just isn't there to use it 90% of the time.

[hotrivets]

You can't win regularly when one of your "best" forwards is disengaged from playing sound hockey night in and night out. He wants to be an NHLer. He wants the paycheck. But he wants it at minimal effort and sacrifice. That's not the type of player this team needs and certainly not come the playoffs.
He's got the skill and natural ability, the will and desire just isn't there to use it 90% of the time.

+1 I sometimes wonder about Thomas also who really brings it some nights. Last night was not one of those.