Sell or hold

[AZ_Cardsfan]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

[JuanAgosto]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

At this point, yes a rebuild is the best option. Why so many are frustrated is that it shouldn't have ever gotten to this point. The team was a perineal playoff participant. They had a top 5 farm system. And Mozeliak made bad trades and stupid free agent signings to squander it. Then BDW closed his wallet because dumb (donkey) Mo wasted so much on bad deals.

[CCard]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

Forbes. And the fact they haven't folded. Where did you pull your 250 million number from? Better put some Vaseline on that, I'm sure it's sore. LOL They would jack the payroll up to 190-200 million and field a very good team. That gets you a very good starter and a pretty good bat. Maybe a little more. I'm not saying they have to spend like the Dodgers, though the Dodgers deferred a ton of money to field the team they have. Why couldn't the Cards do that? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with cheap. LOl You don't seem to understand that to get the cheap quality talent to bring up from the farm, it has to be drafted. Not an easy task if you been the class of the division for 2 decades. To me, tanking is unethical. Not only that, but it guarantees nothing. You might draft a superstar, but he'll have to develop for years and while he does you lose.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

Forbes. And the fact they haven't folded. Where did you pull your 250 million number from? Better put some Vaseline on that, I'm sure it's sore. LOL They would jack the payroll up to 190-200 million and field a very good team. That gets you a very good starter and a pretty good bat. Maybe a little more. I'm not saying they have to spend like the Dodgers, though the Dodgers deferred a ton of money to field the team they have. Why couldn't the Cards do that? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with cheap. LOl You don't seem to understand that to get the cheap quality talent to bring up from the farm, it has to be drafted. Not an easy task if you been the class of the division for 2 decades. To me, tanking is unethical. Not only that, but it guarantees nothing. You might draft a superstar, but he'll have to develop for years and while he does you lose.

Tell us what did Forbes say about their income/expense level? Better yet link us to their article.

And it isn't tanking. It is recognizing you need to focus on a long term strategy.

As to $250 mil hmmm. According to Spotrac the projected payroll for 2026 now is $113 mil. To be a threat to win the WS they need to add:

At least TWO elite level pitchers. Those go for around $35 mil per these days.

A new closer - $20 mil

A RFer who is en elite bat - $40 mil

A LFer who is an adequate bat - $20.

So around $150 mil added to the current roster and you have a serious contender. And my nether regions feel just fine thanks.

[CCard]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

Forbes. And the fact they haven't folded. Where did you pull your 250 million number from? Better put some Vaseline on that, I'm sure it's sore. LOL They would jack the payroll up to 190-200 million and field a very good team. That gets you a very good starter and a pretty good bat. Maybe a little more. I'm not saying they have to spend like the Dodgers, though the Dodgers deferred a ton of money to field the team they have. Why couldn't the Cards do that? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with cheap. LOl You don't seem to understand that to get the cheap quality talent to bring up from the farm, it has to be drafted. Not an easy task if you been the class of the division for 2 decades. To me, tanking is unethical. Not only that, but it guarantees nothing. You might draft a superstar, but he'll have to develop for years and while he does you lose.

Tell us what did Forbes say about their income/expense level? Better yet link us to their article.

And it isn't tanking. It is recognizing you need to focus on a long term strategy.

As to $250 mil hmmm. According to Spotrac the projected payroll for 2026 now is $113 mil. To be a threat to win the WS they need to add:

At least TWO elite level pitchers. Those go for around $35 mil per these days.

A new closer - $20 mil

A RFer who is en elite bat - $40 mil

A LFer who is an adequate bat - $20.

So around $150 mil added to the current roster and you have a serious contender. And my nether regions feel just fine thanks.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there pardner. They need one elite starter to pair with Gray. They need one fairly elite bat to anchor the lineup. They need improvement in the bullpen but that doesn't mean they have to spend 20 million on some closer. Who ever said anything about a RF? As far as being a serious contender? Was Chicago and Cincy serious contenders? They both made the playoffs and had a chance. Was the Brewers a serious contender? There's so much wrong with your post I can hardly address it all. As for the Forbes article, look it up yourself. I posted it a while back and I'm not your research assistant. I believe the article quoted the Cards as making 350 million a year or two ago. I'm sure Forbes investigated and has professionals to research and write their articles.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

Forbes. And the fact they haven't folded. Where did you pull your 250 million number from? Better put some Vaseline on that, I'm sure it's sore. LOL They would jack the payroll up to 190-200 million and field a very good team. That gets you a very good starter and a pretty good bat. Maybe a little more. I'm not saying they have to spend like the Dodgers, though the Dodgers deferred a ton of money to field the team they have. Why couldn't the Cards do that? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with cheap. LOl You don't seem to understand that to get the cheap quality talent to bring up from the farm, it has to be drafted. Not an easy task if you been the class of the division for 2 decades. To me, tanking is unethical. Not only that, but it guarantees nothing. You might draft a superstar, but he'll have to develop for years and while he does you lose.

Tell us what did Forbes say about their income/expense level? Better yet link us to their article.

And it isn't tanking. It is recognizing you need to focus on a long term strategy.

As to $250 mil hmmm. According to Spotrac the projected payroll for 2026 now is $113 mil. To be a threat to win the WS they need to add:

At least TWO elite level pitchers. Those go for around $35 mil per these days.

A new closer - $20 mil

A RFer who is en elite bat - $40 mil

A LFer who is an adequate bat - $20.

So around $150 mil added to the current roster and you have a serious contender. And my nether regions feel just fine thanks.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there pardner. They need one elite starter to pair with Gray. They need one fairly elite bat to anchor the lineup. They need improvement in the bullpen but that doesn't mean they have to spend 20 million on some closer. Who ever said anything about a RF? As far as being a serious contender? Was Chicago and Cincy serious contenders? They both made the playoffs and had a chance. Was the Brewers a serious contender? There's so much wrong with your post I can hardly address it all. As for the Forbes article, look it up yourself. I posted it a while back and I'm not your research assistant. I believe the article quoted the Cards as making 350 million a year or two ago. I'm sure Forbes investigated and has professionals to research and write their articles.

I'm making assumptions? Bwahahaha. As are you. Pot kettle. Only difference is yours are based on a incomplete knowledge of business accounting and profits versus revenue. Forbes at no time lists profits of the team. They show 2024 revenue of $373 million. There is zero mention of profits. And the last one they produced was for 2024 which saw 3 million thru the gates. Not 2025 which saw a large reduction in revenue. So again, you ARE my research assistant if you want to be taken seriously. Show a recent year PROFIT level that indicates they could spend significantly more and maintain any break even point. And don't demand they run in the red to make you happy.

As to my assumptions please expand where I'm wrong. It will take MASSIVE spending to make this club competitive in 2026. Show where my estimates are off. If you don't think to match up with and hope to win a short series against LAD or TOR it will take at least 3 elite or near elite arms and at least one elite bat plus one better than average bat your are deluding yourself. This team as constructed lacks elite talent in every area. You don't threaten to win a title with the talent level here. They are a sub 500 team right now. What do you think it will take to compete with the better teams? One player and a prayer? Just a reminder 2025:

Runs scored - 19th out of 30
Runs allowed - 22nd of 30


There is so much wrong with your beliefs that STL could spend more and remain profitable and that it would only take adding a few affordable players. Both are wrong. My bet is they are operating at a less than 10% profit margin (which means less than $37 million in 2024 let alone now) which would add one significant player to the ML squad. And my bet is next year they are looking at potentially running in the red if ticket sales remain where they are. And adding one major FA won't change that. Once the losing starts again people will stop coming.

Seems the team, most pundits following the team, and many here understand the only way for STL to regain a competitive team to contend for a series title is the path they are on. It isn't tanking, it IS rebuilding. And we are halfway thru it now. 2026 will be another losing season. And potentially running in the red. But it will be positioning the team with more developing talent that can be the building block to contend in 2027 and beyond. You don't have to like it. You don't have to understand it. But insulting those who understand it and whining about wanting them to spend more NOW is childish.

Have the last word unless you actually provide Forbes data showing STL made large profits last year in which case I will admit I was wrong. If they are pocketing large I will join you in charging their business meetings with torches and pitchforks. Show me something with PROFITS listed.

[CCard]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

If they were to try and contend next year for a shot at the world series they would need to spend over $250 mil to add the missing talent. I seriously doubt they could do that without losing a great deal of money and even then it would be iffy to get anywhere.

The better path in many peoples eyes is the one they are on. Accept the rebuild, create a deep and modern farm system sending up quality talent, THEN open the wallet to add the missing pieces. Then their window to compete will stay open longer.

Forbes. And the fact they haven't folded. Where did you pull your 250 million number from? Better put some Vaseline on that, I'm sure it's sore. LOL They would jack the payroll up to 190-200 million and field a very good team. That gets you a very good starter and a pretty good bat. Maybe a little more. I'm not saying they have to spend like the Dodgers, though the Dodgers deferred a ton of money to field the team they have. Why couldn't the Cards do that? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with cheap. LOl You don't seem to understand that to get the cheap quality talent to bring up from the farm, it has to be drafted. Not an easy task if you been the class of the division for 2 decades. To me, tanking is unethical. Not only that, but it guarantees nothing. You might draft a superstar, but he'll have to develop for years and while he does you lose.

Tell us what did Forbes say about their income/expense level? Better yet link us to their article.

And it isn't tanking. It is recognizing you need to focus on a long term strategy.

As to $250 mil hmmm. According to Spotrac the projected payroll for 2026 now is $113 mil. To be a threat to win the WS they need to add:

At least TWO elite level pitchers. Those go for around $35 mil per these days.

A new closer - $20 mil

A RFer who is en elite bat - $40 mil

A LFer who is an adequate bat - $20.

So around $150 mil added to the current roster and you have a serious contender. And my nether regions feel just fine thanks.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions there pardner. They need one elite starter to pair with Gray. They need one fairly elite bat to anchor the lineup. They need improvement in the bullpen but that doesn't mean they have to spend 20 million on some closer. Who ever said anything about a RF? As far as being a serious contender? Was Chicago and Cincy serious contenders? They both made the playoffs and had a chance. Was the Brewers a serious contender? There's so much wrong with your post I can hardly address it all. As for the Forbes article, look it up yourself. I posted it a while back and I'm not your research assistant. I believe the article quoted the Cards as making 350 million a year or two ago. I'm sure Forbes investigated and has professionals to research and write their articles.

I'm making assumptions? Bwahahaha. As are you. Pot kettle. Only difference is yours are based on a incomplete knowledge of business accounting and profits versus revenue. Forbes at no time lists profits of the team. They show 2024 revenue of $373 million. There is zero mention of profits. And the last one they produced was for 2024 which saw 3 million thru the gates. Not 2025 which saw a large reduction in revenue. So again, you ARE my research assistant if you want to be taken seriously. Show a recent year PROFIT level that indicates they could spend significantly more and maintain any break even point. And don't demand they run in the red to make you happy.

As to my assumptions please expand where I'm wrong. It will take MASSIVE spending to make this club competitive in 2026. Show where my estimates are off. If you don't think to match up with and hope to win a short series against LAD or TOR it will take at least 3 elite or near elite arms and at least one elite bat plus one better than average bat your are deluding yourself. This team as constructed lacks elite talent in every area. You don't threaten to win a title with the talent level here. They are a sub 500 team right now. What do you think it will take to compete with the better teams? One player and a prayer? Just a reminder 2025:

Runs scored - 19th out of 30
Runs allowed - 22nd of 30


There is so much wrong with your beliefs that STL could spend more and remain profitable and that it would only take adding a few affordable players. Both are wrong. My bet is they are operating at a less than 10% profit margin (which means less than $37 million in 2024 let alone now) which would add one significant player to the ML squad. And my bet is next year they are looking at potentially running in the red if ticket sales remain where they are. And adding one major FA won't change that. Once the losing starts again people will stop coming.

Seems the team, most pundits following the team, and many here understand the only way for STL to regain a competitive team to contend for a series title is the path they are on. It isn't tanking, it IS rebuilding. And we are halfway thru it now. 2026 will be another losing season. And potentially running in the red. But it will be positioning the team with more developing talent that can be the building block to contend in 2027 and beyond. You don't have to like it. You don't have to understand it. But insulting those who understand it and whining about wanting them to spend more NOW is childish.

Have the last word unless you actually provide Forbes data showing STL made large profits last year in which case I will admit I was wrong. If they are pocketing large I will join you in charging their business meetings with torches and pitchforks. Show me something with PROFITS listed.

First....373 million in revenue on a payroll of about 170 million. That's 200 million for operating expenses and minor league obligations.
Second...I don't even know if that includes all the merchandising and that probably is more that anything else.
Third...We've already seen, even just this year, that teams that spend more have a much better chance of winning.
Fourth...The long history of baseball since free agency shows that teams that spend have a much higher chance of winning and winning it all.
Fifth...Site where "most pundits" following the team agree with tanking. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.
Sixth...Billionaire owners are well known for running their organizations at a deficit. Not. I'm okay with some profit, just not obscene profit. Buy and 10 dollar beers lately?
Seventh....Tanking is wrong and bad. Say it with me. Intentionally losing is a slap in the face to fans and drives down the fan base.
Eighth... Tanking guarantees only that you lose...for years.
Ninth...Many teams are perpetual tankers. Again, it's a slap in the face to fans.
Tenth...Put a (bleep) product on the field that at least has a chance of making the playoffs. Just getting in at least creates excitement and gives a team a chance.

There's your last word.

[earp]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

The St. Louis Cardinals are currently valued at approximately $2.55 billion as of 2025. This places them 12th on CNBC’s Official MLB Team Valuations list.

Here’s a breakdown of their financial profile:

Financial Highlights
Team Valuation: $2.55 billion

Revenue (2024 season): $395 million

EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization): $34 million

[AZ_Cardsfan]

You can certainly afford more talent if you're the Cards. They make plenty of profit.

And you have some evidence to support this statement? Based on TV revenue market size and downturn in ticket sales they might not be able to afford to spend what you think they should.

The St. Louis Cardinals are currently valued at approximately $2.55 billion as of 2025. This places them 12th on CNBC’s Official MLB Team Valuations list.

Here’s a breakdown of their financial profile:

Financial Highlights
Team Valuation: $2.55 billion

Revenue (2024 season): $395 million

EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization): $34 million

Valuation is irrelevant to revenue and expenses. But the earnings data is interesting. I'm surprised it's released, Had they signed one more premier player for $34 mil it would have been break even. I wonder if all the owners of the team are happy not getting a check.

If in fact earnings were that low imagine what 2025 was like with the fan fall off. Yeah they reduced payroll but revenues are probably a lot lower. Might silence many complainers if they actually released their books. Thanks for that.