Cardinals core players

[AZ_Cardsfan]

I think Bloom will consider position players Winn, Wetherholt, Herrera, Scott and Crooks as off limits in trades. I also think he would be reluctant to move Walker. This will be a pivotal year for both Walker and Gorman, with the latter not off limits. Either Bloom extends Donovan or shops him. Winn should should also be extended. Pitchers McGreevy and Libertore are the only off limit to trade pitchers. Lib should also be extended. Just some thoughts.

Not being nasty, honestly curious- why do you think Crooks would be included on a list of core players? I believe Crooks will be a solid major league player, and if he was the best the Cardinals had I would be content with that, but it's quite possible that Bernal and Rodriguez are better than him, and some may count Herrera as a catcher (I don't) and he would be above Crooks on the depth chart. Fourth on the depth chart in your own organization doesn't say "core" to me. If it's up to me, I'm leaving him off the list of core players. I'm interested in your thoughts on the subject.

I was going to raise the same question. It isn't that I don't like Crooks potential it's just that I think Rodriguez and Bernal offer higher upside. Although you never know until they are in the bigs.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Also, Crooks is rule 5 eligible

I see no core outside of Doyle and JJ

I'm listening to all offers for anyone. That doesn't imply you give others away.

I would listen on anyone. But I would have to be wowed to deal Winn or Herrera.

[Talkin' Baseball]

He's not a core piece, but I also don't think they will trade Pages this winter. Until one of Herrera, Crooks, or Bernal establishes themselves as a viable major league option, Pages will stay. He may stay as the backup anyway.

[TheFantasyStud]

The old core which are aging out and could or should be traded -
Arenado, Gray, Contreras, Nootbaar, Donavan and Burleson
I hope they keep Gray, Contreras and either one of Donavan or Burleson.

The new core which needs a couple players to make big improvements (uhmmm Walker, Scott and Gorman) in 2026
Herrera, JJ Wetherholt, Winn, Gorman, Scott and Walker

I think it’s hard to call pitchers core pieces because of the high probability of injury year to year. Having said that my core would be Liberatore, McGreevy, Doyle, Matthews, Svanson and maybe one of Leahy or O’Brien

That gives you 6 core bats and 6 core arms.
Fill in around them with the best supplements you can.

[ICCFIM2]

It depends upon how you define core. If core is defined by players that the team will extend this year, it is possible that there are zero core players. I wrote on another thread that if the Cardinals adopt the Rays method, even a player like Winn will never be extended because Yairo Padilla exists in the minor leagues.

If the definition is a list of players I would not trade this offseason, Winn, Herrera, Wetherholdt, Doyle, Liberatore, McGreevy. Even the last 2 I will listen to offers on. Everyone else is fair game.

Players they might extend after 2026/2027 spring training, Winn, Herrera, Wetherholdt, Liberatore, Donovan and Burleson. I added the last 2 to this list even though they did not make the first two lists for two reasons. First, if they are with the team after this offseason, the team may have determined they want to keep them. Second, if the team performs at the WC level in 2026 or is close, they may determine those guys can get them to a near championship level in another year or 2.

[Talkin' Baseball]

To me a core player is someone I want on the team for the next 3-5 seasons and would have zero, to low interest in trading. Players who fit that description for me today would be Winn, Wetherholt, Liberatore, Matthews, and Doyle. Borderline candidate would be Herrera. I'm hopeful that in a year or two I could add Bernal, Rodriguez, and Joshua Baez. While I'm being hopeful, I hope some of the players not on this list can be dealt for someone(s) to add to the core.

[redbirdfan51]

I think Bloom will consider position players Winn, Wetherholt, Herrera, Scott and Crooks as off limits in trades. I also think he would be reluctant to move Walker. This will be a pivotal year for both Walker and Gorman, with the latter not off limits. Either Bloom extends Donovan or shops him. Winn should should also be extended. Pitchers McGreevy and Libertore are the only off limit to trade pitchers. Lib should also be extended. Just some thoughts.

Sort of disagree. Especially on IH, Scott and Crooks. Also I thought this year was the critical year for Gorman and Walker? Donovan and Winn are core players and I hope both stay but honestly no one is off limits for the right deal.

I included Crooks because the Cards are high on him and he is a catcher that bats from the left side. I realize he may not be the best of all the really good catching prospects in the minors. I included Scott because of his exceptional speed, defense and the hope that he vastly improves his hitting. I definately would add Gorman , but not sure the Cards will extend him. I based my thoughts on their possible future value and not their current value.

[dugoutrex]

I think with Scott and Winn as GG finalists, I’d add JJ, Libby, McG, and form a solid young core.

I believe there is zero percent chance that the players listed here are traded this offseason. I would add Doyle, Rodriguez, and Herrera to that list.

Just curious, what do you think the return for .216 hitting CF is?

Nothing. That’s the good news. He can only get better. Then we will have something. Can’t get worse.

can he ever reach Harry Bader levels ?

[2ninr]

I think with Scott and Winn as GG finalists, I’d add JJ, Libby, McG, and form a solid young core.

I believe there is zero percent chance that the players listed here are traded this offseason. I would add Doyle, Rodriguez, and Herrera to that list.

Just curious, what do you think the return for .216 hitting CF is?

I'm not calling Scott a core player at all. I just think there is no chance he is traded this winter. They can't do everything first. There are more glaring issues than him at the moment and there is no ready replacement, so they will deal with other things first. If he doesn't improve, they will get around to him.

I know this is probably sacrilegious in some way, but I'm going to make the analogy even though they don't play the same position. Look at Ozzie's offensive stats after his first season until he was traded. Quite similar to Scott. But he was elite defensively. Now I'm not saying Scott is going to have Ozzies level of elite defense. But he's pretty dang good along with the elite speed. At this stage of his career, they aren't that different. Im sure it's been pointed out to him ad-nauseam what Ozzie did to become the player he did. I witnessed Ozzies first season here and at the plate it wasn't pretty. No way I want to be the guy to trade Scott if his offense developed the way Ozzies did.

[Goldfan]

I think with Scott and Winn as GG finalists, I’d add JJ, Libby, McG, and form a solid young core.

I believe there is zero percent chance that the players listed here are traded this offseason. I would add Doyle, Rodriguez, and Herrera to that list.

Just curious, what do you think the return for .216 hitting CF is?

I'm not calling Scott a core player at all. I just think there is no chance he is traded this winter. They can't do everything first. There are more glaring issues than him at the moment and there is no ready replacement, so they will deal with other things first. If he doesn't improve, they will get around to him.

I know this is probably sacrilegious in some way, but I'm going to make the analogy even though they don't play the same position. Look at Ozzie's offensive stats after his first season until he was traded. Quite similar to Scott. But he was elite defensively. Now I'm not saying Scott is going to have Ozzies level of elite defense. But he's pretty dang good along with the elite speed. At this stage of his career, they aren't that different. Im sure it's been pointed out to him ad-nauseam what Ozzie did to become the player he did. I witnessed Ozzies first season here and at the plate it wasn't pretty. No way I want to be the guy to trade Scott if his offense developed the way Ozzies did.

That era allowed and promoted Ozzie’s type of hitting and he eventually excelled at it. If scott concentrated on that type of hitting he probably could be offensively viable. But he’s not attempting to be that type of hitter, solely motivated to get on 1b and then run. He’s swinging for the fences just like everyone else these days.

[An Old Friend]

Also, Crooks is rule 5 eligible

I see no core outside of Doyle and JJ

I'm listening to all offers for anyone. That doesn't imply you give others away.

I would listen on anyone. But I would have to be wowed to deal Winn or Herrera.

Yeah, agree to an extent…

My core would probably just be Wetherholt, Herrera, Liberatore, McGreevy. Two healthy workhorse type starters and two legit bats. It’d be nice if they could get 50-60 starts at catcher out of Herrera, but still likely a good enough bat to pencil in at DH on the cheap for a few years. Hopefully they can find some defensive utility from him.

[2ninr]

I think with Scott and Winn as GG finalists, I’d add JJ, Libby, McG, and form a solid young core.

I believe there is zero percent chance that the players listed here are traded this offseason. I would add Doyle, Rodriguez, and Herrera to that list.

Just curious, what do you think the return for .216 hitting CF is?

I'm not calling Scott a core player at all. I just think there is no chance he is traded this winter. They can't do everything first. There are more glaring issues than him at the moment and there is no ready replacement, so they will deal with other things first. If he doesn't improve, they will get around to him.

I know this is probably sacrilegious in some way, but I'm going to make the analogy even though they don't play the same position. Look at Ozzie's offensive stats after his first season until he was traded. Quite similar to Scott. But he was elite defensively. Now I'm not saying Scott is going to have Ozzies level of elite defense. But he's pretty dang good along with the elite speed. At this stage of his career, they aren't that different. Im sure it's been pointed out to him ad-nauseam what Ozzie did to become the player he did. I witnessed Ozzies first season here and at the plate it wasn't pretty. No way I want to be the guy to trade Scott if his offense developed the way Ozzies did.

That era allowed and promoted Ozzie’s type of hitting and he eventually excelled at it. If scott concentrated on that type of hitting he probably could be offensively viable. But he’s not attempting to be that type of hitter, solely motivated to get on 1b and then run. He’s swinging for the fences just like everyone else these days.

Oh yeah. I agree. I don’t miss many at bats. And yes he doesn't have artificial turf. But if he doesn't change his approach he's going to be a 4th outfielder. If he does-I want to be there.

[Talkin' Baseball]

If Scott could change his approach and eek out one more hit a week by being a better bunter or hitting more balls on the ground- anything- his batting average last year would have jumped from .215 to .281. His on-base percentage would take a similar increase. We would be having a whole different conversation. One more hit per week.

[JuanAgosto]

The only thing close to a core player on this team is Winn.

Herrera is a solid bat. His catching defense sucks.

Scott is good defensively, but sucks at hitting.

Donovan could be a core player. But he's probably dealt.

Burleson is a good hitter (in this lineup). But his best position is probably 1b.

Wetherholt? Jury is out at MLB level.

Doyle? Im not naming a guy starting 2026 in the minors a "core player ".

Contreras, Arenado, Gray? Have to see what happens.

Everyone else is expendable.

[JackClark]

Who’s better defensively? I’ve heard Crooks and Bernal are good behind the plate. Between Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez, and Herrera, keep the best defensive one at catcher and they others might move to first, left, or DH or trade one for a pitcher.

[Carp4Cy]

It depends upon how you define core. If core is defined by players that the team will extend this year, it is possible that there are zero core players. I wrote on another thread that if the Cardinals adopt the Rays method, even a player like Winn will never be extended because Yairo Padilla exists in the minor leagues.

If the definition is a list of players I would not trade this offseason, Winn, Herrera, Wetherholdt, Doyle, Liberatore, McGreevy. Even the last 2 I will listen to offers on. Everyone else is fair game.

Players they might extend after 2026/2027 spring training, Winn, Herrera, Wetherholdt, Liberatore, Donovan and Burleson. I added the last 2 to this list even though they did not make the first two lists for two reasons. First, if they are with the team after this offseason, the team may have determined they want to keep them. Second, if the team performs at the WC level in 2026 or is close, they may determine those guys can get them to a near championship level in another year or 2.

If we adopt the Rays methods we will never win in the playoffs. Winning in the playoffs requires experience in the playoffs, as we keep seeing with the Dodgers vs everyone else.

If we keep trading everyone who has that experience for those with no experience it’s a losing combo.