Midrange Jay wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:17 pm
We have $75 million in payroll commitments next year. We already had half of it come off the books in two years. That’s a pretty big chunk to start with.
Yep!
I don't understand trading Gray, and then going to spend money to replace him? Trading him just creates another hole that needs to be filled. Why not keep him and then spend money (there should be plenty) on a starter and hitter.
The only way trading him makes sense is of they are just completely throwing next season away and you can get something good for him. If not, trading him seems like a lateral move.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am
It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:
Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.
If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).
Unless something has changed, I think Gray controls the “pathway” to return to St Louis. Full NTC, as I understand it.
Not necessarily PRT.
Bloom doesn't have to trade him.
If he chooses not to, then Gray will be here on the mound OD 2026.
But he does indeed have a full NTC, so he'd have to approve any trade Bloom "might" bring to him.
Oh the promise of FREED UP MONEY next season……Are you fellas falling for that one again…..Almost every year theres this mysterious freed up money from ending contracts….we see it.
And just as magically it somehow evaporates(arbitration, current salary increases…..) poof all gone…..BDW magic
Not me GF, I have never "fallen" for anything.
I figured out many years ago how BDWJr operates in good times (re: 3+M attendance) where he'd only spend money from expiring or traded contracts.
In bad times like 2024/2025 he simply puts the huge payroll slashing savings into his pocket.
Perhaps the “other areas” BDW is referring to is a new island in the Caribbean….
Well that means they aren’t spending much because unless bloom is a miracle worker they are going to have to eat large chunks of the money. Arenado they will have to eat most of that. Gray they will have to eat half of that at least. The only one they probably won’t have to eat a lot on is Contreras if he decides to go
Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm
You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!
I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.
I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.
Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.
Too much drama and distraction around Contreras. He gets HBP deliberately and then complains that his teammates don't want to back him up.
Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm
You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!
I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.
I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.
Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.
Too much drama and distraction around Contreras. He gets HBP deliberately and then complains that his teammates don't want to back him up.
Just go get an outfielder that can actually hit for power and drive runs in. I could care less about how he fields. This team has to get a proven middle of the lineup outfielder than can deliver.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am
It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:
Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.
If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).
The “other areas” Dewitt was referring to were renovations to his home in Malibu. Michael Girsch has been working hard on the special project of designing a rooftop helicopter pad that doubles as a ballroom dance floor.
Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm
You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!
I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.
I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.
Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.
Too much drama and distraction around Contreras. He gets HBP deliberately and then complains that his teammates don't want to back him up.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am
It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:
Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.
If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).
Only an idiot would trade the sole strikeout producing starting pitcher on a team which ranked 29th in MLB in that area.
Particularly since any such move would be a contract dump with very little return as a result.
Unlike Super Slo Mo, Bloom is no idiot (quite possibly weak, but not an idiot).
I suspect he knows, as I have advised, the best option is to have Gray return.
The team can keep him AND compete for a W/C in 2026, with 3 relatively easily accomplished moves.
zoiks wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 13:18 pm
The “other areas” Dewitt was referring to were renovations to his home in Malibu. Michael Girsch has been working hard on the special project of designing a rooftop helicopter pad that doubles as a ballroom dance floor.
Not far off for sure... if anyone is expecting them to spend those savings on payroll they're living in a fantasy world.
ramfandan wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:45 am
In news conference yesterday , DeWitt III mentioned this and reported by Derrick Gourld in his article
Bloom will explore trades for Nolan Arenado and Sonny Gray, the two highest-paid players on the roster. President Bill DeWitt III said if a “giant chunk” of the payroll is traded, he expected that to be spent on improving the roster in other areas.
Bloom said he plans to look into the free-agent market to fill a need in the rotation, add a veteran reliever for the bullpen and possibly add depth.
Unloading large chunks of payroll, is how the Cardinals will be able to spend in free agency. Dewitt’s are not increasing payroll.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am
It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:
Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.
If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).
Only an idiot would trade the sole strikeout producing starting pitcher on a team which ranked 29th in MLB in that area.
Particularly since any such move would be a contract dump with very little return as a result.
Unlike Super Slo Mo, Bloom is no idiot (quite possibly weak, but not an idiot).
I suspect he knows, as I have advised, the best option is to have Gray return.
The team can keep him AND compete for a W/C in 2026, with 3 relatively easily accomplished moves.
I don't see Bloom being "weak", seems like a pretty solid guy unlike the prior POBO.
Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm
You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!
I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.
I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.
Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.
Plausible, cheap and really bad. Where do the RBI’s come from. On top of that a horrible outfield production, and bad pitching. Oh well, we’ve pretty much determined not buy the baseball package next year and for the third year won’t spend to travel to watch them. They don’t care so why should I. Hopefully before I lose total interest, they’ll get a new owner and management.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am
It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:
Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.
If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).
Only an idiot would trade the sole strikeout producing starting pitcher on a team which ranked 29th in MLB in that area.
Particularly since any such move would be a contract dump with very little return as a result.
Unlike Super Slo Mo, Bloom is no idiot (quite possibly weak, but not an idiot).
I suspect he knows, as I have advised, the best option is to have Gray return.
The team can keep him AND compete for a W/C in 2026, with 3 relatively easily accomplished moves.
While I agree on the keeping quality
Sonny Gray by the end of next season will almost be 37
The fuse is getting shorter
Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm
You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!
I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.
I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.
Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.
Too much drama and distraction around Contreras. He gets HBP deliberately and then complains that his teammates don't want to back him up.
They signed him to replace Molina at catcher but he can't catch. Trade him for a bag of baseballs.
All for
.250
20HR
80 RBI
