I don't love Marmol, but let's be real...

[Goldfan]

Fans will vote in spring and afterward.

Talent aside, this team is so weak on basic baseball IQ. And that is on the manager.

Are they? How?

EC, got a quick managerial quiz
Your team is playing well, a couple games out in June….you know the schedule…..the 1st place rival Cubs who you havent played all year…are coming up….3 at home….3 at Wrigley
You have time to set your rotation where your 2 LEAST effective SP can pitch 4 times out of 6 games and your ACE can throw one game or you can switch some things around going into that stretch so your ACE can get more starts against the first place Cubbies with the 5ERA guys less starts
Which one do you choose?
I’ll even give you some rear view mirror info…..your season is toast after your BP starters lose all their starts.
Good luck, shouldn’t take you too long to think this over

[ecleme22]

Fans will vote in spring and afterward.

Talent aside, this team is so weak on basic baseball IQ. And that is on the manager.

Are they? How?

EC, got a quick managerial quiz
Your team is playing well, a couple games out in June….you know the schedule…..the 1st place rival Cubs who you havent played all year…are coming up….3 at home….3 at Wrigley
You have time to set your rotation where your 2 LEAST effective SP can pitch 4 times out of 6 games and your ACE can throw one game or you can switch some things around going into that stretch so your ACE can get more starts against the first place Cubbies with the 5ERA guys less starts
Which one do you choose?
I’ll even give you some rear view mirror info…..your season is toast after your BP starters lose all their starts.
Good luck, shouldn’t take you too long to think this over

I am not saying OM doesn't make headscratchers. Maybe that was one of them. I appreciate the context.

But overall, the team didn't play low IQ baseball.

[Quincy Varnish]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

[Goldfan]

Fans will vote in spring and afterward.

Talent aside, this team is so weak on basic baseball IQ. And that is on the manager.

Are they? How?

EC, got a quick managerial quiz
Your team is playing well, a couple games out in June….you know the schedule…..the 1st place rival Cubs who you havent played all year…are coming up….3 at home….3 at Wrigley
You have time to set your rotation where your 2 LEAST effective SP can pitch 4 times out of 6 games and your ACE can throw one game or you can switch some things around going into that stretch so your ACE can get more starts against the first place Cubbies with the 5ERA guys less starts
Which one do you choose?
I’ll even give you some rear view mirror info…..your season is toast after your BP starters lose all their starts.
Good luck, shouldn’t take you too long to think this over

I am not saying OM doesn't make headscratchers. Maybe that was one of them. I appreciate the context.

But overall, the team didn't play low IQ baseball.

That was the season!!!
He takes out SP who are cruising along…..he leaves in pitchers who are getting hammered…..
Hes a puppet and now the puppet master is gone…

[Walter Sobchak00]

There is going to be a work stoppage after the 2026 season, there is zero chance the Cardinals are going to pay Oli's salary and the replacement's salary in 2026 and the salary of the new manager in 2027 when its very likely to at the least have a shortened season and the worst a canceled season.

They fire Marmol at the end of the 2026 season they aren't on the hook to pay a new manager during the work stoppage.

[Quincy Varnish]

There is going to be a work stoppage after the 2026 season, there is zero chance the Cardinals are going to pay Oli's salary and the replacement's salary in 2026 and the salary of the new manager in 2027 when its very likely to at the least have a shortened season and the worst a canceled season.

They fire Marmol at the end of the 2026 season they aren't on the hook to pay a new manager during the work stoppage.

They won’t have to fire Marmol… his contract expires next year.

[ecleme22]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

And yet, on September 14th, the records were:

Reds: 74-75
Cards:73-77

What's that, 1.5 game difference?

[ramfandan]

1. Bloom has been here two seasons. His decision to keep Oli, for now, is more informed than any of us.
2. Bloom is about to make some big moves. Maybe keeping Oli, for now, isn't a top priority. Maybe the time is not now to unleash a new manager.
3. 2025 Cards: They did almost NOTHING in the offseason and sold at the deadline.

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

Good points!
And I’m solidly in the camp that we can do better than Oli and his Staff.
Having said that I believe you should walk before you run.
There should be a lot of roster moves prior to ST and then there figure to be more prospects(hopefully) emerging throughout 2026.
Baby steps.
If forced to make a prediction right now I don’t see Oli here in 2027.
That being said I hope Bloom makes good moves and Oli proves me wrong!

and if things really go south in 2026 , there is always the possibility that Oli could be relieved of his duties prior to the end of the season if Bloom is not satisfied . Cards fans haven't seen that often in St. Louis but who knows . Other teams finish with an interim manager if POBO isn't pleased .

[Quincy Varnish]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

And yet, on September 14th, the records were:

Reds: 74-75
Cards:73-77

What's that, 1.5 game difference?

If W-L record is the measure of a team, then the 2025 Brewers were basically the same as the 1999-2001 Yankees.

[Dicktar2023]

I'm just so [fork]ing tired of hearing the Hot Take Cool Kids begin sentences with "well, actually Oli Marmol is..."

The thought of another year of people I respect ladling on excuses for this entirely mediocre nothing of a manager makes me want to puke.

The thought that BDW is now going to waste another year dwaddling because he doesn't want to start a rebuild in earnest because there might be a lockout coming (after years of dwaddling because he couldn't spend money until the TV rights were nailed down) makes me consider following another team, for the first time in my life.

[icon]

Fans will vote in spring and afterward.

Talent aside, this team is so weak on basic baseball IQ. And that is on the manager.

Are they? How?

Far too many bonehead base running mistakes and failure to score from 2B on singles or from 1B on doubles. Gorman hesitates at 2B on just about every ball hit in the air to the OF with fewer than 2 outs that is clearly going to land safely, for example. And he's not alone. Far too much station to station baseball as a result. And Noot is just a lunk head on the bases. Winn is fast but has no clue how to steal. Matt Carpenter was no speedster, but he was a great base runner and scored tons of runs. Pujols, also not fast, was great at taking extra bases, often running through stop signs at 3B, but rarely out. Bad base running costs a lot of runs over the long haul. How many times did station to station baseball result in bases loaded, 0 outs, and 0 runs? Too many. And lack of speed was too often not the culprit. And why wasn't Scott just given the green light to steal 2B or 3B whenever? It's obvious he wasn't.

And too many throws to wrong bases. (Looking at you, Scott and Walker.)

[blackinkbiz]

I have loathed Oli since his 2 gigantic blunders in 2022 in game 1 against the Phils, especially after he refused to admit fault and said "everything went according to script until that last inning."

But even I can see he really has no positive or negative value for 2026--at least in the eyes of the FO! It's a total rebuild so who gives a sh*t.

Most real managers don't want to deal with that anyway. Now if he gets another contract extension, then there's going to be some issues.

[ecleme22]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

And yet, on September 14th, the records were:

Reds: 74-75
Cards:73-77

What's that, 1.5 game difference?

If W-L record is the measure of a team, then the 2025 Brewers were basically the same as the 1999-2001 Yankees.

And if W-L records were a measure of a team, then all 83-79 teams are the 2006 Cardinals.

We are just talking W-L record for the 2025 season.

You speak as though Cincy was so superior because of their rotation, but the Cards (who were sellers and did nothing in the offseason) hung with them as late as 9/14.

My premise is if the Cards were just modest in the offseason and weren't sellers at the deadline, they would've been better than Cincy.

Obviously we will never know the truth. I just know Oli's tanking team was neck and neck with Tito's buying Cincy team as late as 9/14.

[icon]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

And yet, on September 14th, the records were:

Reds: 74-75
Cards:73-77

What's that, 1.5 game difference?

If W-L record is the measure of a team, then the 2025 Brewers were basically the same as the 1999-2001 Yankees.

And if W-L records were a measure of a team, then all 83-79 teams are the 2006 Cardinals.

We are just talking W-L record for the 2025 season.

You speak as though Cincy was so superior because of their rotation, but the Cards (who were sellers and did nothing in the offseason) hung with them as late as 9/14.

My premise is if the Cards were just modest in the offseason and weren't sellers at the deadline, they would've been better than Cincy.

Obviously we will never know the truth. I just know Oli's tanking team was neck and neck with Tito's buying Cincy team as late as 9/14.

That's just the randomness of baseball at work. Example: Often when Miles pitched well, he was getting a lot of batted ball luck -- 2nd lowest K rate in MLB among qualified starters. The same applied to Fedde and Pallante, also low K guys. They can look good for a while, but...

[ecleme22]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

And yet, on September 14th, the records were:

Reds: 74-75
Cards:73-77

What's that, 1.5 game difference?

If W-L record is the measure of a team, then the 2025 Brewers were basically the same as the 1999-2001 Yankees.

And if W-L records were a measure of a team, then all 83-79 teams are the 2006 Cardinals.

We are just talking W-L record for the 2025 season.

You speak as though Cincy was so superior because of their rotation, but the Cards (who were sellers and did nothing in the offseason) hung with them as late as 9/14.

My premise is if the Cards were just modest in the offseason and weren't sellers at the deadline, they would've been better than Cincy.

Obviously we will never know the truth. I just know Oli's tanking team was neck and neck with Tito's buying Cincy team as late as 9/14.

That's just the randomness of baseball at work. Example: Often when Miles pitched well, he was getting a lot of batted ball luck -- 2nd lowest K rate in MLB among qualified starters. The same applied to Fedde and Pallante, also low K guys. They can look good for a while, but...

I don't understand your premise. Yes, bad pitchers sometimes get random success.

[Quincy Varnish]

Hot take: If the Cards made only modest moves in the offseason and stood pat at the deadline, they would at least be better than Tito's Reds....

No. The Reds had a rotation of 5 guys that were as good, or better than Sonny Gray. Pagán was better than Helsley all season long.

Their offense was also better in basically every category, especially on the bases.

And yet, on September 14th, the records were:

Reds: 74-75
Cards:73-77

What's that, 1.5 game difference?

If W-L record is the measure of a team, then the 2025 Brewers were basically the same as the 1999-2001 Yankees.

And if W-L records were a measure of a team, then all 83-79 teams are the 2006 Cardinals.

We are just talking W-L record for the 2025 season.

You speak as though Cincy was so superior because of their rotation, but the Cards (who were sellers and did nothing in the offseason) hung with them as late as 9/14.

My premise is if the Cards were just modest in the offseason and weren't sellers at the deadline, they would've been better than Cincy.

Obviously we will never know the truth. I just know Oli's tanking team was neck and neck with Tito's buying Cincy team as late as 9/14.

Well, what would you describe as a “modest” offseason?

IMO they would have needed two more quality SPs to have a rotation anywhere close to the Reds.

They also would need to add a plus bat, somewhere.

How do you do these things modestly?

…and yes, the Reds were unquestionably superior because of their rotation.