hockey jedi wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 00:29 am
I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.
The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.
The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.
That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.
I remember the 91 team extremely well I went to most of the games that year and was even an usher briefly until I realized they were stationing me on a completely irrelevant outer door of the Arena where I couldn't see Game 5 against Detroit and left to go home and watch the rest.
Binnington had a special element that neither Joseph nor Riendeau had, and while it's one player, the significance of the impact of that player's play is large. The top end talent on 1991 Stevens Hull and Oates was better than 2019 top end talent but depth wise 2019 was better though the entire lineup IMO, plus the goaltending. And Berube easily over Sutter as a coach
hockey jedi wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 00:29 am
I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.
The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.
The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.
That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.
I didn't like the trade at the time...I didn't like it at all. I remember thinking, "if we had gotten Trevor LInden, I would like this better", but either way it felt like a bad idea. Trading Courtnall, Ronning, and Momesso felt REALLY disruptive to a team that was firing on all cylinders. And I wouldn't really call them "spare parts"! Dirk maybe haha, but not those other three. Even Momesso played an important role.
To me, both the Brind’Amour trade and the Butcher deal were both done to appease Sutter. If you want Butcher, trade kids and picks, don’t gut your roster
That's what I've heard too, that it was to appease Sutter. He apparently didn't like Courtnall much and thought ronning was too small. He wanted more toughness, even though the team was already brutally tough to play against and leading the NHL in points.
I remember media excited about Butcher's 257 PMs in 69 games with Vancouver. I remember thinking, if he's always in the penalty box, how is that helping? Seems like his team would always be short handed.
Quinn was mediocre. Decent scorer, but wasn't that great for us and then had an assault accusation in his short time here (sorta like the Gilmour episode)
Obviously getting Ron Sutter that summer has Brian's hands all over it.
Randy Karraker recalls that the Blues actually had a deal worked out that March to trade the same 4 (Courtnall, Ronning, Mo and Dirk) to Hartford for Ron Francis and Ulf Sammuelson. But the Pens came in and swooped those two up first. The Blues then pivoted and went to Vancouver and made that regrettably team killing deal.
It's no surprise Brian Sutter was fired after that 90-91 team collapsed and then the 91-92 team was a shell of what it was the previous year, largely with a roster built under his influence.
And we've heard very little from Brian since. Maybe I am wrong, but is there bad blood held due that firing?
Well, he went on to coach Chicago so he’s dead to me.
He had Brind’Amour squeezing his stick so hard they were turning into sawdust.
The 90-91 team had a chance until the infamous Butcher trade. Ruined the depth and chemistry. I had also heard the rumor about us getting Francis and Samuelsson also. The 2019 team was deeper and better defensively, and of course they finally got the timely goaltending they needed to win a championship.
The 80-81 team was also a favorite of mine. 10 players with 20 goals and Liut in net. Unfortunately the defense was very pedestrian. And they went into the playoffs pretty healthy except for the abscence of Turnbull with some mysterious illness that we never really found out what it was.
I was also at the Islander game in late March of that year with 1st place overall on the line.
In those days the playoff seedings were way different.. it was all based on points - 1st place team played the 16th place team, 2nd place played 15th, and so on.
That Islander game had the biggest build up of any game since the Finals in 1970. It also happened to be the night they retired Barclay Plager's number.
And it was televised locally also, which was unheard of in those days. The Blues were winning 3-2 with 10 minutes left AND were on the PP when Michelletti fell at the blueline and Bob Bourne skated all the way in on a breakaway to tie the score. Then Duane Sutter scored the winning on a rebound with something like 3:42 left in the game and that was all she wrote.
A side note about Courtnall and maybe this is why Sutter had issues with him. I ran into him several times playing blackjack over on the Casino Queen at various hours of the night. A couple of times like 2-3 am. Personally, don’t care and the hours he kept would have fit in with Hull and company.
hockey jedi wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 00:29 am
I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.
The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.
The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.
That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.
Geoff Courtnall had 27g 57 pts in 66 Games at the time he was dealt he was the centerpiece going to Vancouver this trade eventually set Vancouver up to win it all.
Caron wanted another tough dman to play with Stevens but he traded away too much. The Blues may have a Cup that year before that disastrous trade.
Then it became overcompensating to make up for that mess. They felt like losing Courtnall was too much they needed more scoring so they tried to sign Shannie which mumbling bumbling Caron fumbled in court and it cost them Stevens. On and on and on. Futility.
No i dont agree Caron was a very good GM
Last edited by Harry S Deals on 22 Sep 2025 14:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lol in '94 three of the Canucks top 5 Stanley Cup Champion playoff scorers: Courtnall, Ronning, Jeff Brown. Meanwhile in '94 the Blues were eliminated in 4-0 to Dallas.....so it goes.
hockey jedi wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 00:29 am
I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.
The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.
The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.
That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.
Geoff Courtnall had 27g 57 pts in 66 Games at the time he was dealt he was the centerpiece going to Vancouver this trade eventually set Vancouver up to win it all.
Caron wanted another tough dman to play with Stevens but he traded away too much. The Blues may have a Cup that year before that disastrous trade.
Then it became overcompensating to make up for that mess. They felt like losing Courtnall was too much they needed more scoring so they trade to sign Shannie which mumbling bumbling Caron fumbled in court and it cost them Stevens. On and on and on. Futility.
No i dont agree Caron was a very good GM
And yet they never could make it to the promised land. (Vanc I mean). Courtnall helped them short term but Ronning really helped them for years
As far as Caron, it was never boring! Lol
I’d be curious to see how he could have done if we ever had an owner that had money
Harry S Deals wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:39 pm
Lol in '94 three of the Canucks top 5 Stanley Cup Champion playoff scorers: Courtnall, Ronning, Jeff Brown. Meanwhile in '94 the Blues were eliminated in 4-0 to Dallas.....so it goes.
Rangers won that year. Vanc was only in the Finals
It's easy to explain. The Blues were cursed. Doubly, once by being the only expansion team to make the finals in the inaugural season, and twice by Scotty Bowman.
Don't you think it's odd the Blues didn't make the Finals after Scotty left in '71, but would make the Conference Finals every 15 years EXACTLY 1986, 2001, 2016. Vegas goes on to be the second expansion team to make the finals in 2018. In 2019 Scotty calls Bobby Plager and tells him during the Dallas series that the Blues look like they could win it all.
HighStick wrote: ↑21 Sep 2025 22:31 pm
I don't remember Butcher and Quinn hardly at all. Did either of them do anything notable while here? Those were the years of perpetual playoff disappointment. Just one bad decision after another.
Butcher broke Roenick's jaw I think after Roenick scored a game winner in OT. That's about all I remember.
hockey jedi wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 00:29 am
I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.
The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.
The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.
That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.
I didn't like the trade at the time...I didn't like it at all. I remember thinking, "if we had gotten Trevor LInden, I would like this better", but either way it felt like a bad idea. Trading Courtnall, Ronning, and Momesso felt REALLY disruptive to a team that was firing on all cylinders. And I wouldn't really call them "spare parts"! Dirk maybe haha, but not those other three. Even Momesso played an important role.
To me, both the Brind’Amour trade and the Butcher deal were both done to appease Sutter. If you want Butcher, trade kids and picks, don’t gut your roster
That's what I've heard too, that it was to appease Sutter. He apparently didn't like Courtnall much and thought ronning was too small. He wanted more toughness, even though the team was already brutally tough to play against and leading the NHL in points.
I remember media excited about Butcher's 257 PMs in 69 games with Vancouver. I remember thinking, if he's always in the penalty box, how is that helping? Seems like his team would always be short handed.
Quinn was mediocre. Decent scorer, but wasn't that great for us and then had an assault accusation in his short time here (sorta like the Gilmour episode)
Obviously getting Ron Sutter that summer has Brian's hands all over it.
Randy Karraker recalls that the Blues actually had a deal worked out that March to trade the same 4 (Courtnall, Ronning, Mo and Dirk) to Hartford for Ron Francis and Ulf Sammuelson. But the Pens came in and swooped those two up first. The Blues then pivoted and went to Vancouver and made that regrettably team killing deal.
It's no surprise Brian Sutter was fired after that 90-91 team collapsed and then the 91-92 team was a shell of what it was the previous year, largely with a roster built under his influence.
And we've heard very little from Brian since. Maybe I am wrong, but is there bad blood held due that firing?
I had no idea about the proposed trade with Hartford. That would have been a good return.
In 1989-90, the Blues got pushed in Chicago Stadium, especially in Game 7. Sutter wanted not just some toughness, but some nasty, specifically for a potential G7 in Chicago. What people forget, Butcher was in great demand because in those days, it was a capital offense to call a penalty in the playoffs. Literally, no blood, no foul.
Sutter didn’t like small C’s, especially come playoff time. Courtnall’s agent got him traded. In the midst of a playoff run, the agent was haranguing Caron almost daily about renegotiating Courtnall’s deal. Finally, Momesso who had made a living in 1990 as Hull/Oates’ body guard, had fallen off on physicality.
One other thing people forget: Peoria was LOADED with scorers. Unfortunately, they turned out to be AAAA players.
The Butcher trade had a domino effect: a red hot Jon Casey led the Stars to upset wins over the first the President Cup winners Blackhawks and the runner up, Blues. For a little over two weeks, Jon Casey was the best freaking goalie in the world. The Blues felt their scoring had been exposed, which led to the Shanahan signing…WHICH by the way, was strongly opposed by Caron. Caron was fearful of the arbitration process. The loss of Stevens thrust Butcher into the captaincy and a No. 1 pairing. Sensing a lack of toughness and leadership, the Blues dealt Reindeau to Detroit for Zombo and Brind amour (who for his physique was frustratingly easy to know off the puck ) for Ronnie Sutter and Murray Baron. The Oates deal followed, but that was a separate issue.
