Blues January 1991

[Whatashame]

Watching a Blues classic game on Matrix Midwest from January 1991. The game where Hull scored 50 goals in 50 games. What struck me is how good that team was. How did they not win a Stanley Cup before 2019.

That team was loaded. Hull, Oates, Brindamour, Courtnall, Ronning, Lowry, Bassen, McLean, Meaghar, R Sutter, the Cavallini boys, Stevens, Jeff Brown, Snepts, Fetherstone, CuJo. Amazing how much talent they had BUT never won a cup.

[kimzey59]

That was the year of the idiotic trade for Garth Butcher(Courtnall, Ronning, Momesso and Dirk for Butcher and Quinn).
Completely killed our depth and disrupted the team chemistry/lockerroom.

Then we followed that up with the Off-Season shenanigans for Shanny(cost us Stevens +).

Just a horrible show of GM'ing from Ron Caron.

[HighStick]

I don't remember Butcher and Quinn hardly at all. Did either of them do anything notable while here? Those were the years of perpetual playoff disappointment. Just one bad decision after another.

[Sudsy 11]

That was the year of the idiotic trade for Garth Butcher(Courtnall, Ronning, Momesso and Dirk for Butcher and Quinn).
Completely killed our depth and disrupted the team chemistry/lockerroom.

Then we followed that up with the Off-Season shenanigans for Shanny(cost us Stevens +).

Just a horrible show of GM'ing from Ron Caron.

Can't forget the awful Rod Brind'Amour trade.

[netboy65]

We had some good to great teams in the 90s but that was the same time Detroit was emerging with their powerhouse and we kept running into them round 1 or 2.

[Whatashame]

There was unquestionably some great teams around. Detroit with the Russian explosion among them. This particular game featuring Hull and his accomplishments was against Detroit. The Blues ran over Federov and company this night 10-2.

Winning the Stanley Cup is a lot of things, including a fair amount of luck. The Blues must not have had much luck because they certainly had a lot of talent.

[hockey jedi]

I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.

The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.

The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.

That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.

[Stlcardsblues]

Watching a Blues classic game on Matrix Midwest from January 1991. The game where Hull scored 50 goals in 50 games. What struck me is how good that team was. How did they not win a Stanley Cup before 2019.

That team was loaded. Hull, Oates, Brindamour, Courtnall, Ronning, Lowry, Bassen, McLean, Meaghar, R Sutter, the Cavallini boys, Stevens, Jeff Brown, Snepts, Fetherstone, CuJo. Amazing how much talent they had BUT never won a cup.

What is Matrix Midwest?

[Tony Palazzolo]

Over the decades the Blues had several teams that were deep and on paper a contender. It always seemed to come down to one variable they didn't have, goaltending. There have been teams win with a good goalie, but it always seems that cup teams had a great goalie or a goalie go on a great run. The hardest part about Binnington is figuring out is he a great goalie or a goalie that went on a great run. I think he's proven himself a great goalie and if you can put a team around him there is always a chance.

[sneptsmoustache]

I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.

The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.

The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.

That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.

I didn't like the trade at the time...I didn't like it at all. I remember thinking, "if we had gotten Trevor LInden, I would like this better", but either way it felt like a bad idea. Trading Courtnall, Ronning, and Momesso felt REALLY disruptive to a team that was firing on all cylinders. And I wouldn't really call them "spare parts"! Dirk maybe haha, but not those other three. Even Momesso played an important role.

[netboy65]

I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.

The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.

The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.

That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.

I didn't like the trade at the time...I didn't like it at all. I remember thinking, "if we had gotten Trevor LInden, I would like this better", but either way it felt like a bad idea. Trading Courtnall, Ronning, and Momesso felt REALLY disruptive to a team that was firing on all cylinders. And I wouldn't really call them "spare parts"! Dirk maybe haha, but not those other three. Even Momesso played an important role.

To me, both the Brind’Amour trade and the Butcher deal were both done to appease Sutter. If you want Butcher, trade kids and picks, don’t gut your roster

[DawgDad]

I did not like the big 1991 trade at the time, either. I was a big fan of Courtnall, both times with the Blues, and Ronning was playing well. I kind of suspected Quinn wouldn't fit, and he didn't. Butcher was a good player in return but I will always believe that trade cost the team a trip to the Finals.

The 80-81 team was my favorite Blues team until they won the Cup, supplanting the second season team. They got bit hard by the injury bug. The defense was pedestrian at best but the offense and Liut were spectacular, over the second half Pettersson-Dunlop-Babych was an unstoppable line. I'll never forget that late season game (loss) at home to the Islanders, Michelletti tripping over the blue line at the point. Similar to the 21-22 team, crushing offense.

[stlblues1979]

I did not like the big 1991 trade at the time, either. I was a big fan of Courtnall, both times with the Blues, and Ronning was playing well. I kind of suspected Quinn wouldn't fit, and he didn't. Butcher was a good player in return but I will always believe that trade cost the team a trip to the Finals.

The 80-81 team was my favorite Blues team until they won the Cup, supplanting the second season team. They got bit hard by the injury bug. The defense was pedestrian at best but the offense and Liut were spectacular, over the second half Pettersson-Dunlop-Babych was an unstoppable line. I'll never forget that late season game (loss) at home to the Islanders, Michelletti tripping over the blue line at the point. Similar to the 21-22 team, crushing offense.

Mine as well, Dawg. I remember that game very well also. We were battling the Islanders for the President's trophy & the build up for that game was amazing. I also remember it for being a home game that was televised locally. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I had not ever remembered a regular season home game being televised. Had to be KPLR, channel 11, right?

I was so pumped that season with Federko, Babyich, & Sutter having emerged. And Mike Liut? still my favorite Blue of all time. And that's not taking anything from Binnington. Easily arguably the best Blues goalie of all time, but Liut just has that special place!

[somni]

I did not like the big 1991 trade at the time, either. I was a big fan of Courtnall, both times with the Blues, and Ronning was playing well. I kind of suspected Quinn wouldn't fit, and he didn't. Butcher was a good player in return but I will always believe that trade cost the team a trip to the Finals.

The 80-81 team was my favorite Blues team until they won the Cup, supplanting the second season team. They got bit hard by the injury bug. The defense was pedestrian at best but the offense and Liut were spectacular, over the second half Pettersson-Dunlop-Babych was an unstoppable line. I'll never forget that late season game (loss) at home to the Islanders, Michelletti tripping over the blue line at the point. Similar to the 21-22 team, crushing offense.

I hated that they traded Courtnall. He was one of my favorites on that team.
And as one Canuck fan put...Butcher will hit the h3ll out of players in front of the net, especially after they score.

I remember Dan Quinn being a perimeter player. He was suppose to be a "power play specialist", but he was soft as kleenex.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.

The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.

The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.

That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.

I didn't like the trade at the time...I didn't like it at all. I remember thinking, "if we had gotten Trevor LInden, I would like this better", but either way it felt like a bad idea. Trading Courtnall, Ronning, and Momesso felt REALLY disruptive to a team that was firing on all cylinders. And I wouldn't really call them "spare parts"! Dirk maybe haha, but not those other three. Even Momesso played an important role.

Arguably other than Pronger trade one of the worst mives ever. Those guys were integral and in fact a big reason why the canucks later went to the finals themselves (losing in 7 to the rangers). Hardly spare parts.

[Lloyd Braun]

I think Ron Caron was a great GM. The BrindAmour trade was a knee jerk reaction to one of our top 4 defenseman getting hurt and Murry Baron was the key piece that RC wanted. BrindAmour had difficulty relaxing with the intensity of Brian Sutter.

The Canucks trade seemed like a good idea at the time. We were giving up spare parts not realizing how important the depth they provided. We were gutting a tough mean defensemen in Garth Butcher and Dan Quinn who was a good top-6 forward. Quinn could never find the success in St. Louis that he had in Vancouver. Things started to unravel when Oates wanted to renegotiate his contract after the Blues had already renegotiated his contract (in the middle of an existing contract) again. In hindsight, the Blues should have just given him a blank check because we never could find a 1C that Hull was happy with.

The Steven's signing was great for St. Louis. So was signing Shanahan. The NHL and judge Ed Houston screwed the Blues at the urging of the owners. They were scared to death that signings like that would be the death of the league.

That team, though, was probably better than the 2019 team.

I didn't like the trade at the time...I didn't like it at all. I remember thinking, "if we had gotten Trevor LInden, I would like this better", but either way it felt like a bad idea. Trading Courtnall, Ronning, and Momesso felt REALLY disruptive to a team that was firing on all cylinders. And I wouldn't really call them "spare parts"! Dirk maybe haha, but not those other three. Even Momesso played an important role.

To me, both the Brind’Amour trade and the Butcher deal were both done to appease Sutter. If you want Butcher, trade kids and picks, don’t gut your roster

That's what I've heard too, that it was to appease Sutter. He apparently didn't like Courtnall much and thought ronning was too small. He wanted more toughness, even though the team was already brutally tough to play against and leading the NHL in points.

I remember media excited about Butcher's 257 PMs in 69 games with Vancouver. I remember thinking, if he's always in the penalty box, how is that helping? Seems like his team would always be short handed.

Quinn was mediocre. Decent scorer, but wasn't that great for us and then had an assault accusation in his short time here (sorta like the Gilmour episode)

Obviously getting Ron Sutter that summer has Brian's hands all over it.

Randy Karraker recalls that the Blues actually had a deal worked out that March to trade the same 4 (Courtnall, Ronning, Mo and Dirk) to Hartford for Ron Francis and Ulf Sammuelson. But the Pens came in and swooped those two up first. The Blues then pivoted and went to Vancouver and made that regrettably team killing deal.

It's no surprise Brian Sutter was fired after that 90-91 team collapsed and then the 91-92 team was a shell of what it was the previous year, largely with a roster built under his influence.

And we've heard very little from Brian since. Maybe I am wrong, but is there bad blood held due that firing?