If Girardi were the 2025 Cardinals manager

[JuanAgosto]

Sooner or later, any sports team acquires the characteristics of its manager and field coaching staff. Whether they “out performed” expectations or not at 3 games under .500 is really not the issue. Despite occasional exhibitions of fire, this team lacks a purpose and togetherness, keeps drifting, does stupid things on the field without any accountability.

I don’t see Marmol as the manager to turn this ream around, long term.

A new, field manager like Girardi would provide many of those things. Now, he may still produce a 3-game under record, but it’d be a more exciting team, giving hope for the future, and could draw concerns from any opponent they meet.

Managers come and go, and many have been let go for lesser reasons than Marmol has.

Yep, they will have to have a new manager before they rewrite the culture they had this year and last where winning wasn't important. Marmol is not going to be the one to walk in the clubhouse and clap his hands and say alright boys it's time.

Who says winning wasn’t important?

Are you even serious?

How about Marmol’s boss who said “I don’t want him to feel pressure to win.”

Not to mention numerous post-game pressers where Marmol himself talks about winning not being a priority.

And wouldn't you know it. The offense and starting pitching are at the bottom 1/4 of the league and the team is 3 game under...

There are a select few bottom feeder teams with a drastically worse winning percentage. The difference between bottom 1/4 (7.5 teams?) and bottom 3rd, where we live, is a fine line.

If you think that proves he’s some kind of overachiever, then you sound more like an apologist than objective.

He’s a good man and probably a good teacher and friend, so I hope they keep him. And put him in the minors so he can mentor the boys with fragile egos who have not yet learned accountability as men.

My hypothetical in the OP was a simple question.

And as I stated in my OP, I wasn’t a change in managers

Fair. The discussion got a little derailed away from your hypothetical and into Marmol criticism.

As far as your OP, I think another manager would unfairly get more of a pass. Oli and Mo fatigue has set in and the losing has us previously spoiled fans a little agitated.

Sorry, but being a combined 18 games under .500 over the last 3 seasons gives nobody a pass in StL. I dont care if it's Oli Marmol or anyone else.

I’m with you all the way on manager change. When he mentioned he asked a simple question in his OP, I acknowledged I didn’t answer. My post was agreeing about the excuse making from Marmol. I do think another manager would’ve gotten more of a pass at least in their first year just due to Marmol fatigue.

I can see that. I think a manager with this roster would get a pass until year two. Unless he did some idiotic things or acted like a jerk. To some credit, marmol has toned down some of the arrogance and condescending attitude. But it was very aggravating in 2023.

[JuanAgosto]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

[alw80]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

If Girardi were manager I suspect this team would be over .500. But play your fantasy games all you want.

Of course you do, you dont have a clue as to what youre talking about.

I suppose I don't, because it's ecleme22's fantasy, not mine. I'm just trying to inject some reality into it.

Reality is that Girardi isn't a good manager and there is no way in hell hed have this group of misfits over .500.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Sad how we’ve been relegated to comparing turds these days. Girardi is good because he’s better than Oli. Burleson is great because he has the highest average on a team that can’t hit. Even Bloom has experienced his fair share of failures, but hey, he’s no Mo!

[ecleme22]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

Why?

[smurf fighter]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

I think you want to [F o r k] your mom but I could be confused you are a terrible poster like me

[AtillaTheBlue1]

lol, joe girardi is the answer, yikes, what delusional world are people living in

[BrummerStealsHome]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

If Girardi were manager I suspect this team would be over .500. But play your fantasy games all you want.

Of course you do, you dont have a clue as to what youre talking about.

I suppose I don't, because it's ecleme22's fantasy, not mine. I'm just trying to inject some reality into it.

Reality is that Girardi isn't a good manager and there is no way in hell hed have this group of misfits over .500.

Girardi is a former Manager of the Year and World Champion. Still a lot better than Marmol.

[Hoosier59]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

I agree, but it is all a matter of culture and attitude. I want a manager who instills a winning attitude, strong fundamental play, etc.. I don't want a guy who jokes with the team when they are down 10 runs....

AMEN!
Oli has created a bad culture where there is no pressure to win or play ball the correct way. Too many games the team shows up not ready to go!

[JuanAgosto]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

Why?

Because he has been out of baseball for years. Its a random choice.

[ecleme22]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

Why?

Because he has been out of baseball for years. Its a random choice.

You’re grasping for straws.

He was a manager as recent as 2022.

[JuanAgosto]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

Why?

Because he has been out of baseball for years. Its a random choice.

You’re grasping for straws.

He was a manager as recent as 2022.

Out of the game for 3 years. Why not compare him to Ozzie Guillen? Similar resume and out of the game for a while.

[scoutyjones2]

Sooner or later, any sports team acquires the characteristics of its manager and field coaching staff. Whether they “out performed” expectations or not at 3 games under .500 is really not the issue. Despite occasional exhibitions of fire, this team lacks a purpose and togetherness, keeps drifting, does stupid things on the field without any accountability.

I don’t see Marmol as the manager to turn this ream around, long term.

A new, field manager like Girardi would provide many of those things. Now, he may still produce a 3-game under record, but it’d be a more exciting team, giving hope for the future, and could draw concerns from any opponent they meet.

Managers come and go, and many have been let go for lesser reasons than Marmol has.

Yep, they will have to have a new manager before they rewrite the culture they had this year and last where winning wasn't important. Marmol is not going to be the one to walk in the clubhouse and clap his hands and say alright boys it's time.

Who says winning wasn’t important?

Are you even serious?

How about Marmol’s boss who said “I don’t want him to feel pressure to win.”

Not to mention numerous post-game pressers where Marmol himself talks about winning not being a priority.

And wouldn't you know it. The offense and starting pitching are at the bottom 1/4 of the league and the team is 3 game under...

There are a select few bottom feeder teams with a drastically worse winning percentage. The difference between bottom 1/4 (7.5 teams?) and bottom 3rd, where we live, is a fine line.

If you think that proves he’s some kind of overachiever, then you sound more like an apologist than objective.

He’s a good man and probably a good teacher and friend, so I hope they keep him. And put him in the minors so he can mentor the boys with fragile egos who have not yet learned accountability as men.

My hypothetical in the OP was a simple question.

And as I stated in my OP, I wasn’t a change in managers

Fair. The discussion got a little derailed away from your hypothetical and into Marmol criticism.

As far as your OP, I think another manager would unfairly get more of a pass. Oli and Mo fatigue has set in and the losing has us previously spoiled fans a little agitated.

Sorry, but being a combined 18 games under .500 over the last 3 seasons gives nobody a pass in StL. I dont care if it's Oli Marmol or anyone else.

I’m with you all the way on manager change. When he mentioned he asked a simple question in his OP, I acknowledged I didn’t answer. My post was agreeing about the excuse making from Marmol. I do think another manager would’ve gotten more of a pass at least in their first year just due to Marmol fatigue.

I can see that. I think a manager with this roster would get a pass until year two. Unless he did some idiotic things or acted like a jerk. To some credit, marmol has toned down some of the arrogance and condescending attitude. But it was very aggravating in 2023.

I don't have vision to the arrogance and condescending attitude from Oli that you state. Can you provide examples?

[ecleme22]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

Why?

Because he has been out of baseball for years. Its a random choice.

You’re grasping for straws.

He was a manager as recent as 2022.

Out of the game for 3 years. Why not compare him to Ozzie Guillen? Similar resume and out of the game for a while.

3 years and 13 years are a big difference.

Try again….

[JuanAgosto]

...and had a 72-75 record compared to the Pythagoreanan 69-78, and doing it with a FO that divested in the team last offseason, Mr. Girardi would be so celebrated on Cards Talk.

"Just give'em a good roster to work with!"


I want Bloom to change managers in 2026. I think we need a fresh approach. But unlike many CTers, I don't think 99% of the issues on the 2025 team are a result of Marmol's mismanagement.

Joe Girardi? That's the name you pull out to make some ridiculous statement? That guy hasn't managed in 3 years.

Pretty sure Matheny and Shildt were grilled on here as well. Were you making similar threads then?

If you have been around long enough, you will know exactly why he used Girardi as an example/comp.

I had a notion why.

Why?

Because he has been out of baseball for years. Its a random choice.

You’re grasping for straws.

He was a manager as recent as 2022.

Out of the game for 3 years. Why not compare him to Ozzie Guillen? Similar resume and out of the game for a while.

3 years and 13 years are a big difference.

Try again….

Both won WS. And Guillen arguably got more out of his rosters. Hes still close to the game. And relatively young.

[JuanAgosto]

Yep, they will have to have a new manager before they rewrite the culture they had this year and last where winning wasn't important. Marmol is not going to be the one to walk in the clubhouse and clap his hands and say alright boys it's time.

Who says winning wasn’t important?

Are you even serious?

How about Marmol’s boss who said “I don’t want him to feel pressure to win.”

Not to mention numerous post-game pressers where Marmol himself talks about winning not being a priority.

And wouldn't you know it. The offense and starting pitching are at the bottom 1/4 of the league and the team is 3 game under...

There are a select few bottom feeder teams with a drastically worse winning percentage. The difference between bottom 1/4 (7.5 teams?) and bottom 3rd, where we live, is a fine line.

If you think that proves he’s some kind of overachiever, then you sound more like an apologist than objective.

He’s a good man and probably a good teacher and friend, so I hope they keep him. And put him in the minors so he can mentor the boys with fragile egos who have not yet learned accountability as men.

My hypothetical in the OP was a simple question.

And as I stated in my OP, I wasn’t a change in managers

Fair. The discussion got a little derailed away from your hypothetical and into Marmol criticism.

As far as your OP, I think another manager would unfairly get more of a pass. Oli and Mo fatigue has set in and the losing has us previously spoiled fans a little agitated.

Sorry, but being a combined 18 games under .500 over the last 3 seasons gives nobody a pass in StL. I dont care if it's Oli Marmol or anyone else.

I’m with you all the way on manager change. When he mentioned he asked a simple question in his OP, I acknowledged I didn’t answer. My post was agreeing about the excuse making from Marmol. I do think another manager would’ve gotten more of a pass at least in their first year just due to Marmol fatigue.

I can see that. I think a manager with this roster would get a pass until year two. Unless he did some idiotic things or acted like a jerk. To some credit, marmol has toned down some of the arrogance and condescending attitude. But it was very aggravating in 2023.

I don't have vision to the arrogance and condescending attitude from Oli that you state. Can you provide examples?

It was on display throught 2023. Any time he was questioned in a post game interview, he became condescending towards the person asking. Most were legitimate questions. As i stated, he has toned that down.