Cool ESPN story about best players by draft position

[DawgDad]

There is no question that good players can be found outside the TOP5. The question is if your GM and scouts are good enough to find them. The results speak for themselves.

Conclusion: There is no evidence that Armstrong finds better talent than other GMs lower in the draft. The evidence points to the reverse.

You keep saying this and yet you’ve never ever ever provided any proof that this is even remotely true. If fact, I and many others have provided the opposite - league-wide draft results over the course of Army’s tenure that continually show the Blues as one of the best drafting teams in the league.

You are right in that the results speak for themselves…but you’re 100% wrong in your interpretation of them. You somehow see failure while the reality is that the Blues have some of the best draft success stories in the league since Army has been GM. Your entire premise and foundation for your arguments against Army are based on a reality that only exists in your head.

Many of us have been in your shoes. This relieves the exasperation but it won't change anything.

[wiscrev]

There is no question that good players can be found outside the TOP5. The question is if your GM and scouts are good enough to find them. The results speak for themselves.

Conclusion: There is no evidence that Armstrong finds better talent than other GMs lower in the draft. The evidence points to the reverse.

You keep saying this and yet you’ve never ever ever provided any proof that this is even remotely true. If fact, I and many others have provided the opposite - league-wide draft results over the course of Army’s tenure that continually show the Blues as one of the best drafting teams in the league.

You are right in that the results speak for themselves…but you’re 100% wrong in your interpretation of them. You somehow see failure while the reality is that the Blues have some of the best draft success stories in the league since Army has been GM. Your entire premise and foundation for your arguments against Army are based on a reality that only exists in your head.

Many of us have been in your shoes. This relieves the exasperation but it won't change anything.

It's hard to reason with a brick wall, IT stands alone and It should be forgotten. So glad I have Glow Stick on ignore.

[a smell of green grass]

There is no question that good players can be found outside the TOP5. The question is if your GM and scouts are good enough to find them. The results speak for themselves.

Conclusion: There is no evidence that Armstrong finds better talent than other GMs lower in the draft. The evidence points to the reverse.

You keep saying this and yet you’ve never ever ever provided any proof that this is even remotely true. If fact, I and many others have provided the opposite - league-wide draft results over the course of Army’s tenure that continually show the Blues as one of the best drafting teams in the league.

You are right in that the results speak for themselves…but you’re 100% wrong in your interpretation of them. You somehow see failure while the reality is that the Blues have some of the best draft success stories in the league since Army has been GM. Your entire premise and foundation for your arguments against Army are based on a reality that only exists in your head.

This report is a bit old, but nothing has changed much. This year we added Snuggerud, but subtracted Bolduc.

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/23/brea ... selection/

Most first-round picks internally drafted: ANA (8), BUF (8), PHI (8), WSH (8)
Fewest first-round picks internally drafted: VGK (0), SEA (1), NSH (2), PIT (2), STL (2)

The most telling sign is this...
Army snagged 2 prospects off Edmonton's BENCH, and those prospects are our best prospects by far. What did Edmonton do without Broberg and Holloway? They returned to the Final. Where would the Blues be without Broberg and Holloway?

[DawgDad]

There is no question that good players can be found outside the TOP5. The question is if your GM and scouts are good enough to find them. The results speak for themselves.

Conclusion: There is no evidence that Armstrong finds better talent than other GMs lower in the draft. The evidence points to the reverse.

You keep saying this and yet you’ve never ever ever provided any proof that this is even remotely true. If fact, I and many others have provided the opposite - league-wide draft results over the course of Army’s tenure that continually show the Blues as one of the best drafting teams in the league.

You are right in that the results speak for themselves…but you’re 100% wrong in your interpretation of them. You somehow see failure while the reality is that the Blues have some of the best draft success stories in the league since Army has been GM. Your entire premise and foundation for your arguments against Army are based on a reality that only exists in your head.

This report is a bit old, but nothing has changed much. This year we added Snuggerud, but subtracted Bolduc.

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/23/brea ... selection/

Most first-round picks internally drafted: ANA (8), BUF (8), PHI (8), WSH (8)
Fewest first-round picks internally drafted: VGK (0), SEA (1), NSH (2), PIT (2), STL (2)

The most telling sign is this...
Army snagged 2 prospects off Edmonton's BENCH, and those prospects are our best prospects by far. What did Edmonton do without Broberg and Holloway? They returned to the Final. Where would the Blues be without Broberg and Holloway?

This is laughable, literally laughable. Teams are in different positions competitively, much of the draft pick makeup of their rosters is reflective of that simple fact. Look at Anaheim, Buffalo, and Philadelphia. They have a lot of first round picks because they've been bad and trying to rebuild.

As for Broberg and Holloway, the Oilers effectively abandoned these two prospects in favor of veteran free agents. That was their choice. A team like the Blues gave them ice time the Oilers weren't willing to give them. Right now, look at Dvorsky's situation. The Blues have him parked in the AHL for development. Armstrong has said other teams or the Blues with a different mind set well might have run him directly into the NHL, but sometimes that leads to teams "failing' their prospects. He didn't want to risk that with DD. So, prospects are more likely to play sooner for bottom teams than they do for top teams. Bottom teams unload vets for picks, top teams generally do not. The Caps are a special case.

Why am I wasting my time explaining this to you?

[STL fan in MN]

There is no question that good players can be found outside the TOP5. The question is if your GM and scouts are good enough to find them. The results speak for themselves.

Conclusion: There is no evidence that Armstrong finds better talent than other GMs lower in the draft. The evidence points to the reverse.

You keep saying this and yet you’ve never ever ever provided any proof that this is even remotely true. If fact, I and many others have provided the opposite - league-wide draft results over the course of Army’s tenure that continually show the Blues as one of the best drafting teams in the league.

You are right in that the results speak for themselves…but you’re 100% wrong in your interpretation of them. You somehow see failure while the reality is that the Blues have some of the best draft success stories in the league since Army has been GM. Your entire premise and foundation for your arguments against Army are based on a reality that only exists in your head.

This report is a bit old, but nothing has changed much. This year we added Snuggerud, but subtracted Bolduc.

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/23/brea ... selection/

Most first-round picks internally drafted: ANA (8), BUF (8), PHI (8), WSH (8)
Fewest first-round picks internally drafted: VGK (0), SEA (1), NSH (2), PIT (2), STL (2)

The most telling sign is this...
Army snagged 2 prospects off Edmonton's BENCH, and those prospects are our best prospects by far. What did Edmonton do without Broberg and Holloway? They returned to the Final. Where would the Blues be without Broberg and Holloway?

First off, thanks for actually, finally, posting something to back up your position. Now I shall tear it apart.

Help me understand your point here. That in October 2023 the Blues only had 2 internal 1st rounders on their roster? That would be Thomas and Neighbours I’d assume. Bolduc finished that season on the team but wasn’t on the team in October. My question is, so what? All that really matters is to acquire quality players. Who really cares if they’re internal 1st round picks? Is trading your 1st for an established quality player not a viable use of that asset? I sure think it is. Every GM in the league would too.

What about trading a player you took in the 1st for another asset that fits your needs better? Is that for some reason a bad thing? Your posts seem to suggest so but that makes no sense.

And you keep going back to Broberg and Holloway as if that’s some sort of black mark on Army’s record and not one of the main things that’s going to get him in the HHoF someday (because he absolutely will). Edmonton underutilized those 2 and we took advantage of their stupidity and cap mismanagement. The goal is to win the Cup, not just make the Finals. And in that regard, Army has a Cup and the last multiple Oilers regimes don’t, even after lucking into the #1 overall pick 4 times in a 6 year period. The Oilers have 2 amazing forwards, 1 very good offensive d-man and then a horrible lack of depth. You know who very likely would’ve put them over the top against the Panthers this season? Broberg and Holloway. But that team’s management screwed up and the smart management of another team took advantage.

Poaching those 2 was a genius move and there’s really no getting around that. Your point seems to be that the Blues should be building through the draft instead…but they’re doing both! Bolduc hit and we parlayed him into a d-man we needed more. Snuggerud is going to hit. Helped make Bolduc expendable. Dvorsky is looking good. Right on track. Lindstein, Carbonneau, Stenberg, Jiricek etc are all on the way too. You are correct in that none of them project to be the next MacKinnon or Hedman. But the Blues have shown you can win the Cup via a death via 1000 cuts type of roster, and not just a superstar, top heavy team that lacks depth.

You clearly would prefer the top heavy team with a superstar. Great. It’s understandable. The Blues aren’t that. They’re not going to be that. That’s clearly not the direction they’re going…and it’s fine! It’s a team game.

Let’s get back to your article. You’re somehow using it to try to show Army is poor at drafting. Here’s what it shows:

Most first-round picks internally drafted: ANA (8), BUF (8), PHI (8), WSH (8)

This is the group opposite of the “least” group the Blues were in 2 years ago when this article was written. How are Anaheim, Buffalo, Philly and Washington doing? The 1st 3 are doing very poorly! The 4th had a surprisingly good season but I don’t see a good future for them. Ovie is a shell of what he once was. What’s your argument? That you’d prefer the Blues to be in this group for some reason? Why? What success has that led to?

Here’s an article that shows draft success over the first 10 years of Army’s tenure as GM. The Blues have the 4th highest hit rate in that time.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/wh ... he-draft/

[Bubble4427]

There is no question that good players can be found outside the TOP5. The question is if your GM and scouts are good enough to find them. The results speak for themselves.

Conclusion: There is no evidence that Armstrong finds better talent than other GMs lower in the draft. The evidence points to the reverse.

You keep saying this and yet you’ve never ever ever provided any proof that this is even remotely true. If fact, I and many others have provided the opposite - league-wide draft results over the course of Army’s tenure that continually show the Blues as one of the best drafting teams in the league.

You are right in that the results speak for themselves…but you’re 100% wrong in your interpretation of them. You somehow see failure while the reality is that the Blues have some of the best draft success stories in the league since Army has been GM. Your entire premise and foundation for your arguments against Army are based on a reality that only exists in your head.

This report is a bit old, but nothing has changed much. This year we added Snuggerud, but subtracted Bolduc.

https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/10/23/brea ... selection/

Most first-round picks internally drafted: ANA (8), BUF (8), PHI (8), WSH (8)
Fewest first-round picks internally drafted: VGK (0), SEA (1), NSH (2), PIT (2), STL (2)

The most telling sign is this...
Army snagged 2 prospects off Edmonton's BENCH, and those prospects are our best prospects by far. What did Edmonton do without Broberg and Holloway? They returned to the Final. Where would the Blues be without Broberg and Holloway?

First off, thanks for actually, finally, posting something to back up your position. Now I shall tear it apart.

Help me understand your point here. That in October 2023 the Blues only had 2 internal 1st rounders on their roster? That would be Thomas and Neighbours I’d assume. Bolduc finished that season on the team but wasn’t on the team in October. My question is, so what? All that really matters is to acquire quality players. Who really cares if they’re internal 1st round picks? Is trading your 1st for an established quality player not a viable use of that asset? I sure think it is. Every GM in the league would too.

What about trading a player you took in the 1st for another asset that fits your needs better? Is that for some reason a bad thing? Your posts seem to suggest so but that makes no sense.

And you keep going back to Broberg and Holloway as if that’s some sort of black mark on Army’s record and not one of the main things that’s going to get him in the HHoF someday (because he absolutely will). Edmonton underutilized those 2 and we took advantage of their stupidity and cap mismanagement. The goal is to win the Cup, not just make the Finals. And in that regard, Army has a Cup and the last multiple Oilers regimes don’t, even after lucking into the #1 overall pick 4 times in a 6 year period. The Oilers have 2 amazing forwards, 1 very good offensive d-man and then a horrible lack of depth. You know who very likely would’ve put them over the top against the Panthers this season? Broberg and Holloway. But that team’s management screwed up and the smart management of another team took advantage.

Poaching those 2 was a genius move and there’s really no getting around that. Your point seems to be that the Blues should be building through the draft instead…but they’re doing both! Bolduc hit and we parlayed him into a d-man we needed more. Snuggerud is going to hit. Helped make Bolduc expendable. Dvorsky is looking good. Right on track. Lindstein, Carbonneau, Stenberg, Jiricek etc are all on the way too. You are correct in that none of them project to be the next MacKinnon or Hedman. But the Blues have shown you can win the Cup via a death via 1000 cuts type of roster, and not just a superstar, top heavy team that lacks depth.

You clearly would prefer the top heavy team with a superstar. Great. It’s understandable. The Blues aren’t that. They’re not going to be that. That’s clearly not the direction they’re going…and it’s fine! It’s a team game.

Let’s get back to your article. You’re somehow using it to try to show Army is poor at drafting. Here’s what it shows:

Most first-round picks internally drafted: ANA (8), BUF (8), PHI (8), WSH (8)

This is the group opposite of the “least” group the Blues were in 2 years ago when this article was written. How are Anaheim, Buffalo, Philly and Washington doing? The 1st 3 are doing very poorly! The 4th had a surprisingly good season but I don’t see a good future for them. Ovie is a shell of what he once was. What’s your argument? That you’d prefer the Blues to be in this group for some reason? Why? What success has that led to?

Here’s an article that shows draft success over the first 10 years of Army’s tenure as GM. The Blues have the 4th highest hit rate in that time.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/wh ... he-draft/

4th highest hit rate is fantastic and it say a lot about Army and his scouting staff.
(My guess is you’re not going to get a response from Smelly.)

[blues2112]

Thought for sure CP would be on here.

He might make it once he gets more years in if another 150 points or so could come his way.

Right now there's a 190 point spread in his plus minus over Klima.

You hit the nail on the head, Parayko is the better quality player. Klima was a consistent goal scorer but not much else.

Writer debated between 55 and Klima, who was a fantasy league nightmare when +/- was factored.

To seattleblue's comments "Lehtinen was a good player but Binnington will be the best 88 when it's done. Parayko easily at 86 when it's done. Perron is close to Lemieux at 26"
Agree 100 percent.