For the Matheny haters

[desertrat23]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact and well documented.

What specifically do you disagree with in the linked piece? Why didn’t you answer as to whether or not you’d read it?

I did read it.

It’s well documented his bullpen management was bad.

I read it as well. “Other than Kevin Siegrist….” He ended Kevin Siegrist’s career. And Seth Maness’. And Matt Bowman.

Absolute baloney re Siegrist, Maness, and Bowman. You have zero proof of that. It’s just the opinion of an amateur fan.
.

your opinions are an amateur fans opinions also

How many years has Bowman been pitching professionally?
And what possible proof do you have that Matheny “ruined”
Siegrist and Maness? That’s right ………none.

You’re angry. Too emotionally tied to this and to Matheny to have an objective conversation. It’s OK to admit it.

[icon]

Suuuuure he does.

And, on the off chance he does, I guess it would explain the sycophancy.

It’s not an off chance. Seriously.

You don’t have to believe me, but I also have no reason to make it up.

Ol’ Friend, I believe you. And I’ve posted several times that to be so vehement in his defense of Mozo, Cranny must be connected with the FO, or be related to someone in the FO, or be friends with someone in the FO. I’ve derisively called him Mrs. Mozeliak in a couple of posts.

No normal Cardinal “just a fan” would be on here as much, blindly defending this incompetent organization.

Cranny isn't some insider. Maybe he knows one or two joe blows from his church.

Cranny doesn't defend Oli. He even said, when MM was fired, he didn't trust Oli.

Cranny didn't defend Fowler. In fact, he didn't like him and made that well known.

Cranny will do logic gymnastics to defend Matheny. To a lesser extent, Mo.

Cranny isn't a shill for the FO. He's just a Matheny lover.

I respected his toughness as a player. I respect what kind of person he is because I’ve met him. And I truly think he got the short end of the stick as far as the quality of players Mo brought in. And then was made a scapegoat. That’s all.

You "I respected his toughness as a player."
Me: "Okay, he won GG. I liked him as a Cardinal"

You: I respect what kind of person he is because I’ve met him.
Me: Who cares? He was a nice. Cool, dude.

You: And I truly think he got the short end of the stick as far as the quality of players Mo brought in.
Me: I agree. Matheny was at his best when he got rosters who just won the WS. Any other roster would show Matheny's lack of skills as a manager.

Ecleme -
One time I attended a charity event and Matheny was the guest speaker. The fee for a speaker was $15,000. He donated that entire speaking fee to the charity. He easily could have used that money for his family. He was more than just “nice”.

I guess what triggered me on this thread is the thread’s subject. Hate is a strong word.

Well he never was good with money

You have no idea about that, sdaltons. He and other investors invested in a building and had a tenant lined up for the building. The tenant company moved in. When the recession hit, the tenant couldn’t pay the rent and the investors didn’t have rental income to pay the debt service on the building. The investors had personally guaranteed the Ioan. It happened all over the country.

He earned over 22 million in his baseball career. While after taxes and living expenses that doesn't really fall under generational wealth, but for anyone with any sense about money, that's enough to get through the rest of your life without ever ending up homeless/living with the in-laws.

Exactly. Anybody who is smart with money knows that you have to set aside a certain amount that you cannot afford to lose and only so-called gamble with a certain relatively low percentage of your money. Anybody who goes broke after making $22 million is a fool with money. And greedy to boot. $22 million was not enough for this greedy fool.

He shouldn't have been risking so much money that he could go broke. That's just stupidity on steroids. And this good, Christian man just stiffed creditors left and right. Is that a moral thing to do? Not that these creditors weren't stupid enough to lend money to somebody with no experience in real estate.

You have no idea, and thus have no right to judge.

I do have an idea. You ever hear of diversification in investments? He should never have invested in something that had the potential to wipe him out, but he did. That's dumb. If he had even just stashed the lion's share of his money in the S&P 500 and used the rest for play money without leveraging it to the hilt, he would have ridden out the Great Recession just fine. Leveraging carries great risk, and he paid a big price.

Meanwhile, before his ill-fated investments, he had bought an ostentatious estate in Wildwood as well that featured 7 bedrooms, 10 baths, a baseball field, an indoor batting cage, a sports court, a pool and a lake. Of course, he had to sell it to pay off debt. Warren Buffett by contrast has lived in the same modest house in Omaha since 1958, when he bought it for $31,500. And he's kind of done okay.

Matheny is just not very bright, I'm afraid. And it showed in the way he managed, especially in the postseason. Pitching to Ortiz early and often in the WS? Removing Lynn for Maness? Taking Wacha out of mothballs to pitch him in a must-win NLCS game?

[OldRed]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

Give it UP.

Reminds me me of your Cards AAA and Saggese threads...just relentless and having to have the last word...harmless and sad

Yes it is.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Thread reminds me of a good diarrhea dump. It just won’t stop and there’s [shirt] everywhere.

[AnExParrot]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact and well documented.

What specifically do you disagree with in the linked piece? Why didn’t you answer as to whether or not you’d read it?

I did read it.

It’s well documented his bullpen management was bad.

I read it as well. “Other than Kevin Siegrist….” He ended Kevin Siegrist’s career. And Seth Maness’. And Matt Bowman.

Absolute baloney re Siegrist, Maness, and Bowman. You have zero proof of that. It’s just the opinion of an amateur fan.
.

your opinions are an amateur fans opinions also

Yehbut, they're HIS opinions... the only one that matters.

[Cranny]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact and well documented.

What specifically do you disagree with in the linked piece? Why didn’t you answer as to whether or not you’d read it?

I did read it.

It’s well documented his bullpen management was bad.

I read it as well. “Other than Kevin Siegrist….” He ended Kevin Siegrist’s career. And Seth Maness’. And Matt Bowman.

Absolute baloney re Siegrist, Maness, and Bowman. You have zero proof of that. It’s just the opinion of an amateur fan.
.

your opinions are an amateur fans opinions also

Very true, and I’ve admitted that. I’ve never managed or coached a team at the high school, college, or professional level. But the VEB article is excellent.,

[Cranny]

Thread reminds me of a good diarrhea dump. It just won’t stop and there’s [shirt] everywhere.

It’s actually a decent discussion, dawg, whether you want to participate or not. And if you really feel that way, why do you read any posts on this thread?

[Cranny]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact and well documented.

What specifically do you disagree with in the linked piece? Why didn’t you answer as to whether or not you’d read it?

I did read it.

It’s well documented his bullpen management was bad.

I read it as well. “Other than Kevin Siegrist….” He ended Kevin Siegrist’s career. And Seth Maness’. And Matt Bowman.

Absolute baloney re Siegrist, Maness, and Bowman. You have zero proof of that. It’s just the opinion of an amateur fan.
.

your opinions are an amateur fans opinions also

How many years has Bowman been pitching professionally?
And what possible proof do you have that Matheny “ruined”
Siegrist and Maness? That’s right ………none.

You’re angry. Too emotionally tied to this and to Matheny to have an objective conversation. It’s OK to admit it.

If I’m angry, it’s because a poster makes a claim as a fact that is only an opinion. Matt Bowman, for instance is still pitching professionally today.

[WLTFE]

Thread reminds me of a good diarrhea dump. It just won’t stop and there’s [shirt] everywhere.

Now you're in trouble. You'll be chastised because you're not following the rules of Baghdad Bob!

[sikeston bulldog2]

Thread reminds me of a good diarrhea dump. It just won’t stop and there’s [shirt] everywhere.

It’s actually a decent discussion, dawg, whether you want to participate or not. And if you really feel that way, why do you read any posts on this thread?

This thread is a decent discussion? Seems filled with anger and resentment to me.

As to why I read the posts, I read every post on most threads.

[Cranny]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

Give it UP.

Reminds me me of your Cards AAA and Saggese threads...just relentless and having to have the last word...harmless and sad

Yes it is.

Very simple, Red. You and your tag team troll partner should just stay off a thread if you don’t like it.

[Cranny]

Thread reminds me of a good diarrhea dump. It just won’t stop and there’s [shirt] everywhere.

It’s actually a decent discussion, dawg, whether you want to participate or not. And if you really feel that way, why do you read any posts on this thread?

This thread is a decent discussion? Seems filled with anger and resentment to me.

As to why I read the posts, I read every post on most threads.

Why read it and comment on it if you think it’s diarrhea, dawg? Why not just ignore it? Especially if it’s a topic you don’t care for?

[OldRed]

Thread reminds me of a good diarrhea dump. It just won’t stop and there’s [shirt] everywhere.

Now you're in trouble. You'll be chastised because you're not following the rules of Baghdad Bob!

Yep, went right after him and called it a decent thread. bottom line, if Matheny was so great, why did he get canned?

[OldRed]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

Give it UP.

Reminds me me of your Cards AAA and Saggese threads...just relentless and having to have the last word...harmless and sad

Yes it is.

Very simple, Red. You and your tag team troll partner should just stay off a thread if you don’t like it.

Very simple, don't tell he how to post. Either that or just report me like you do others.

[An Old Friend]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

Give it UP.

Reminds me me of your Cards AAA and Saggese threads...just relentless and having to have the last word...harmless and sad

Yes it is.

Very simple, Red. You and your tag team troll partner should just stay off a thread if you don’t like it.

I do take a particular enjoyment in the folks who want to dispute the piece that I posted but their debate points are basically "just because". People are generally challenged when data doesn't align with their preconceived opinions... and then they react emotionally instead of rationally or cordially.

[Ozziesfan41]

After some searching, was able to track down the piece in Viva el birdos where it compared Matheny’s bullpen management to the rest of the league, and he graded out very well (including measuring better than Bochy & Francona).

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2016/11/5/ ... efficiency

The majority of media who cover (covered) the Cardinals were eager to parrot the same Matheny narratives over and over, but a deep data dive showed that much of that criticism was likely off target and unfair.

His bullpen management was bad. That’s documented.

Did you read An Old Friend's post and the attached link from VEB? Are you sure your "opinion" is correct?

Give it UP.

Reminds me me of your Cards AAA and Saggese threads...just relentless and having to have the last word...harmless and sad

Yes it is.

Very simple, Red. You and your tag team troll partner should just stay off a thread if you don’t like it.

I do take a particular enjoyment in the folks who want to dispute the piece that I posted but their debate points are basically "just because". People are generally challenged when data doesn't align with their preconceived opinions... and then they react emotionally instead of rationally or cordially.

Sounds like you’re talking about yourself because that’s exactly what you do