Our outfield vs other outfields

[rockondlouie]

I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?

I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'

LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB

And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.

I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.

He's a butcher in right, why would anyone think he could play center?

Hasn't he only been playing SS/2B since we drafted him?

I didn't know he was playing some RF at Memphis, is he?

Wetherholt is who JJW is not JW Jordan Walker

I said "JJW " (re: my post again)

Lightening Rod got confused.

My Bad, had me excited for a minute.

[rockondlouie]

I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?

I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'

LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB

Pathetic. How can you miss so badly on ALL THREE OF positions, Moe? My goodness you are inept at what you claim you can do. It will be happy times when you are gone in a few long weeks.

And Mo has missed in the OF for YEARS!

Getting close RoJo, he's almost gone and better be taking Oli w/him!

[renostl]

In the first 6 sentences of your response you used the word “I” five times, the word “me” one time and the phrase “only person” one time. That’s seven personal references in just 6 sentences. It’s a good thing it’s never about you!

It's a shame too, IMO.
He brought up some points of discussion.

Lars still isn't staying on the field well enough and
has extended times of low production. His .711 OPS places him #18 in LF
MLB among qualified starters. He'd be #13 in CF, #10 in RF.

VS .621 is #17 in OPS in CF. He has used his runway to show some progress. He has raised his
OPS+ from 40 to 77 and increased his OBP by about 100 points to a still too low .310.
What he allows for though is an outfielder with less range to be out there, 1 not 2.
IF he shows similar progress, even to above an OPS of .700 that put him in top 12-13
offensively while having elite attributes.

AB has a .780 OPS. That's #11 LF, #8 RF. Certainly can be used as no less than a floor
of production in the outfield until someone else takes it from him. He durable, more so than others, a decent
arm and IMO a better fit than Donovan out there.

The Herrera, Walker equation. chose a horse to ride. Having too many single tool players
never helps a team and the team has more than those two to concern the POBO.

Outfield production isn't what it once was. An .800 OPS would be
#9 in LF, #3 in CF, #6 in RF

.750
#12 in LF. #8 in CF, #9 in RF

Bellinger is .807
Ward .811
Rooker .840

They need room for the influx of new while still not creating a over reliance of 1+ new
greatest ever player in the system that will save the day. IF they make just 1 strong add

[11WSChamps]

Ironically just a few years ago we had an abundance of OF players…….supposedly.

When everyone here was saying in 2021that the Cardinals had an "elite" and "top 5" outfield with the "emergence" The Paper Tyler, The Poser, and the rookie appearance of Lars The Human Sushi-baar who some claimed were "MVP and All-Star caliber players", I was the ONLY person who correctly analyzed and advised that the outfield was the team's greatest weakness.
Everyone said I was wrong.
I said everyone was fooled - except me.
I was, of course, absolutely correct.
Which makes me uniquely qualified to analyze the current outfield trainwreck.
Mootbaar, as I alone have correctly advised for the past 4 years, is a 4th outfield platoon player and must be traded.
Scott has promise but is stupidly stubborn at putting the ball in the air and has been too lazy to work seriously on bunting skill - and blame for that is shared with the current coaching staff.
I would give him another opportunity next year - but on a very, very short leash.
He needs to spend all day every day in the off-season working to correct the 2 massive flaws detailed above and demonstrate improvement in ST and then through the first 60 games of next year.
It would be wise to have Church as the 4th/5th outfielder to push Victor along and serve as an obvious threat.
Joshua Baez needs to play CF exclusively in Memphis in early 2026 for that same purpose.
The leaves the corners - and STL must choose to address just ONE of them internally.
If Burleson handles one, Walker must go.
If Walker takes one (which would also require a ready Plan B), then Burleson must go.
That is obviously the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Whichever departs, he MUST be replaced by an established, productive, reliable, ASG quality RH hitting middle order outfielder.
That should be a non-negotiable imperative for Bloom and the new manager.
That leaves Herrera to discuss.
It is good the Cardinals finally and belated did as I and one other poster on this forum have correctly analyzed for the past 3 seasons by abandoning the idiotic notion that he could be a starting MLB catcher and repurposing him as a potential outfielder (regrettably the past 3 wasted years cannot be undone and that now makes his conversion far more difficult and uncertain than it could have been).
Is he a middle order bat as some here foolishly dreamed of based on 2 games in April?
No - and he never will be unless he radically changes his batting stance (as I have also been saying for 3 years).
But he can be a good BA/OBP guy who could conceivably fit at 2, 8, or 9 in a line-up - but that would not do much to address the anemic outfield problem.
Maybe worth keeping as a 4th outfielder/DH/PH option - but his best value to STL is as a trade piece.
If the team does exactly as I advise, the outfield should finally show some much needed improvement next season.
If they do not do as I advise, it will continue to be a massive issue.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

The only obvious thing is you are full of [shirt].

I've been talking about the lack of production in this OF since the downfall of Alan Craig.

You weren't even on this forum then.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?

I'm at least curious about Nathan Church and Joshua Baez.

[Hazelwood72]

Heck, we were better off with O’Neill, Bader, and Carlson in the OF despite their flaws. At least they played good defense.

Carlson has Ray Oyler type stats this year.

LOL! Well played Lid! Hadn’t heard a Ray Oyler reference in a long time!!

[Melville]

Ironically just a few years ago we had an abundance of OF players…….supposedly.

When everyone here was saying in 2021that the Cardinals had an "elite" and "top 5" outfield with the "emergence" The Paper Tyler, The Poser, and the rookie appearance of Lars The Human Sushi-baar who some claimed were "MVP and All-Star caliber players", I was the ONLY person who correctly analyzed and advised that the outfield was the team's greatest weakness.
Everyone said I was wrong.
I said everyone was fooled - except me.
I was, of course, absolutely correct.
Which makes me uniquely qualified to analyze the current outfield trainwreck.
Mootbaar, as I alone have correctly advised for the past 4 years, is a 4th outfield platoon player and must be traded.
Scott has promise but is stupidly stubborn at putting the ball in the air and has been too lazy to work seriously on bunting skill - and blame for that is shared with the current coaching staff.
I would give him another opportunity next year - but on a very, very short leash.
He needs to spend all day every day in the off-season working to correct the 2 massive flaws detailed above and demonstrate improvement in ST and then through the first 60 games of next year.
It would be wise to have Church as the 4th/5th outfielder to push Victor along and serve as an obvious threat.
Joshua Baez needs to play CF exclusively in Memphis in early 2026 for that same purpose.
The leaves the corners - and STL must choose to address just ONE of them internally.
If Burleson handles one, Walker must go.
If Walker takes one (which would also require a ready Plan B), then Burleson must go.
That is obviously the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Whichever departs, he MUST be replaced by an established, productive, reliable, ASG quality RH hitting middle order outfielder.
That should be a non-negotiable imperative for Bloom and the new manager.
That leaves Herrera to discuss.
It is good the Cardinals finally and belated did as I and one other poster on this forum have correctly analyzed for the past 3 seasons by abandoning the idiotic notion that he could be a starting MLB catcher and repurposing him as a potential outfielder (regrettably the past 3 wasted years cannot be undone and that now makes his conversion far more difficult and uncertain than it could have been).
Is he a middle order bat as some here foolishly dreamed of based on 2 games in April?
No - and he never will be unless he radically changes his batting stance (as I have also been saying for 3 years).
But he can be a good BA/OBP guy who could conceivably fit at 2, 8, or 9 in a line-up - but that would not do much to address the anemic outfield problem.
Maybe worth keeping as a 4th outfielder/DH/PH option - but his best value to STL is as a trade piece.
If the team does exactly as I advise, the outfield should finally show some much needed improvement next season.
If they do not do as I advise, it will continue to be a massive issue.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

In the first 6 sentences of your response you used the word “I” five times, the word “me” one time and the phrase “only person” one time. That’s seven personal references in just 6 sentences. It’s a good thing it’s never about you!

You were counting the wrong words.
I mentioned players by name 12 times.
Only and always about the game.
Never about me.

[Whatashame]

Ironically just a few years ago we had an abundance of OF players…….supposedly.

When everyone here was saying in 2021that the Cardinals had an "elite" and "top 5" outfield with the "emergence" The Paper Tyler, The Poser, and the rookie appearance of Lars The Human Sushi-baar who some claimed were "MVP and All-Star caliber players", I was the ONLY person who correctly analyzed and advised that the outfield was the team's greatest weakness.
Everyone said I was wrong.
I said everyone was fooled - except me.
I was, of course, absolutely correct.
Which makes me uniquely qualified to analyze the current outfield trainwreck.
Mootbaar, as I alone have correctly advised for the past 4 years, is a 4th outfield platoon player and must be traded.
Scott has promise but is stupidly stubborn at putting the ball in the air and has been too lazy to work seriously on bunting skill - and blame for that is shared with the current coaching staff.
I would give him another opportunity next year - but on a very, very short leash.
He needs to spend all day every day in the off-season working to correct the 2 massive flaws detailed above and demonstrate improvement in ST and then through the first 60 games of next year.
It would be wise to have Church as the 4th/5th outfielder to push Victor along and serve as an obvious threat.
Joshua Baez needs to play CF exclusively in Memphis in early 2026 for that same purpose.
The leaves the corners - and STL must choose to address just ONE of them internally.
If Burleson handles one, Walker must go.
If Walker takes one (which would also require a ready Plan B), then Burleson must go.
That is obviously the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Whichever departs, he MUST be replaced by an established, productive, reliable, ASG quality RH hitting middle order outfielder.
That should be a non-negotiable imperative for Bloom and the new manager.
That leaves Herrera to discuss.
It is good the Cardinals finally and belated did as I and one other poster on this forum have correctly analyzed for the past 3 seasons by abandoning the idiotic notion that he could be a starting MLB catcher and repurposing him as a potential outfielder (regrettably the past 3 wasted years cannot be undone and that now makes his conversion far more difficult and uncertain than it could have been).
Is he a middle order bat as some here foolishly dreamed of based on 2 games in April?
No - and he never will be unless he radically changes his batting stance (as I have also been saying for 3 years).
But he can be a good BA/OBP guy who could conceivably fit at 2, 8, or 9 in a line-up - but that would not do much to address the anemic outfield problem.
Maybe worth keeping as a 4th outfielder/DH/PH option - but his best value to STL is as a trade piece.
If the team does exactly as I advise, the outfield should finally show some much needed improvement next season.
If they do not do as I advise, it will continue to be a massive issue.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

In the first 6 sentences of your response you used the word “I” five times, the word “me” one time and the phrase “only person” one time. That’s seven personal references in just 6 sentences. It’s a good thing it’s never about you!

You were counting the wrong words.
I mentioned players by name 12 times.
Only and always about the game.
Never about me.

Naw, I counted the right words. In those first six sentences you referenced three players by a nickname you have assigned them while referencing yourself seven times. I think we all know who you meant to reference by the number of times the important people were referenced. 3 nicknamed players once each in those first six sentences. The author of this response, 7 times in the first six sentences.