Our outfield vs other outfields

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Whatashame
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Whatashame »

Melville wrote: 16 Aug 2025 08:53 am
Jatalk wrote: 16 Aug 2025 08:15 am Ironically just a few years ago we had an abundance of OF players…….supposedly.
When everyone here was saying in 2021that the Cardinals had an "elite" and "top 5" outfield with the "emergence" The Paper Tyler, The Poser, and the rookie appearance of Lars The Human Sushi-baar who some claimed were "MVP and All-Star caliber players", I was the ONLY person who correctly analyzed and advised that the outfield was the team's greatest weakness.
Everyone said I was wrong.
I said everyone was fooled - except me.
I was, of course, absolutely correct.
Which makes me uniquely qualified to analyze the current outfield trainwreck.
Mootbaar, as I alone have correctly advised for the past 4 years, is a 4th outfield platoon player and must be traded.
Scott has promise but is stupidly stubborn at putting the ball in the air and has been too lazy to work seriously on bunting skill - and blame for that is shared with the current coaching staff.
I would give him another opportunity next year - but on a very, very short leash.
He needs to spend all day every day in the off-season working to correct the 2 massive flaws detailed above and demonstrate improvement in ST and then through the first 60 games of next year.
It would be wise to have Church as the 4th/5th outfielder to push Victor along and serve as an obvious threat.
Joshua Baez needs to play CF exclusively in Memphis in early 2026 for that same purpose.
The leaves the corners - and STL must choose to address just ONE of them internally.
If Burleson handles one, Walker must go.
If Walker takes one (which would also require a ready Plan B), then Burleson must go.
That is obviously the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION.
Whichever departs, he MUST be replaced by an established, productive, reliable, ASG quality RH hitting middle order outfielder.
That should be a non-negotiable imperative for Bloom and the new manager.
That leaves Herrera to discuss.
It is good the Cardinals finally and belated did as I and one other poster on this forum have correctly analyzed for the past 3 seasons by abandoning the idiotic notion that he could be a starting MLB catcher and repurposing him as a potential outfielder (regrettably the past 3 wasted years cannot be undone and that now makes his conversion far more difficult and uncertain than it could have been).
Is he a middle order bat as some here foolishly dreamed of based on 2 games in April?
No - and he never will be unless he radically changes his batting stance (as I have also been saying for 3 years).
But he can be a good BA/OBP guy who could conceivably fit at 2, 8, or 9 in a line-up - but that would not do much to address the anemic outfield problem.
Maybe worth keeping as a 4th outfielder/DH/PH option - but his best value to STL is as a trade piece.
If the team does exactly as I advise, the outfield should finally show some much needed improvement next season.
If they do not do as I advise, it will continue to be a massive issue.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

In the first 6 sentences of your response you used the word “I” five times, the word “me” one time and the phrase “only person” one time. That’s seven personal references in just 6 sentences. It’s a good thing it’s never about you!
rockondlouie
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by rockondlouie »

scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
CCard
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Posts: 1055
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by CCard »

EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
Noot is a 4th outfielder in my opinion. He just doesn't hit enough. Upgrade needed. Scott II needs to be sat down and explained to that he isn't a homerun hitter and needs to hit for line drives and hard grounders. Then get on a steal his way to power. Until he does that he will struggle. Walker is improving and just needs time. He'll be a top 10 outfielder in his future if he keeps improving his game. Right now they aren't a strong unit.
lidstrom5
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by lidstrom5 »

Hazelwood72 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 07:20 am Heck, we were better off with O’Neill, Bader, and Carlson in the OF despite their flaws. At least they played good defense.
Carlson has Ray Oyler type stats this year.
Mort Gage
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Mort Gage »

rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
rockondlouie
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Posts: 11642
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by rockondlouie »

Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
Mort Gage
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Mort Gage »

rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:33 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
I'm generally averse to moving IFs to OF. I think it's a patch for bad scouting and development. But I wouldn't rule that out that move for Wetherholt.
Lightning Rod
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Lightning Rod »

Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
If you have a guys in the corner outfield positions that can handle the bat you can keep a guy like Scott in CF. Unfortunately, our outfielders are inept at every position, and Scott doesn't hit enough to be a starter. He hits too many pop ups and K's too often, he's your fourth outfielder on most teams.
Lightning Rod
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Posts: 1587
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Lightning Rod »

rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:33 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
He's a butcher in right, why would anyone think he could play center?
rockondlouie
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Posts: 11642
Joined: 23 May 2024 12:41 pm

Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by rockondlouie »

Lightning Rod wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:52 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:33 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
He's a butcher in right, why would anyone think he could play center?
Hasn't he only been playing SS/2B since we drafted him?

I didn't know he was playing some RF at Memphis, is he?
kyace
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Posts: 813
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by kyace »

rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 11:11 am
Lightning Rod wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:52 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:33 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
He's a butcher in right, why would anyone think he could play center?
Hasn't he only been playing SS/2B since we drafted him?

I didn't know he was playing some RF at Memphis, is he?
Wetherholt is who JJW is not JW Jordan Walker
rockondlouie
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Posts: 11642
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by rockondlouie »

kyace wrote: 16 Aug 2025 11:32 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 11:11 am
Lightning Rod wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:52 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:33 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
He's a butcher in right, why would anyone think he could play center?
Hasn't he only been playing SS/2B since we drafted him?

I didn't know he was playing some RF at Memphis, is he?
Wetherholt is who JJW is not JW Jordan Walker
I said "JJW " (re: my post again)

Lightening Rod got confused.
mdkieffer
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Posts: 27
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by mdkieffer »

No matter how you slice it or dice it, the Cards outfield has not been very good for the past few years.

Over all, the Cards are an average team at best
Lightning Rod
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Lightning Rod »

rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 12:29 pm
kyace wrote: 16 Aug 2025 11:32 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 11:11 am
Lightning Rod wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:52 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:33 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
I've heard some suggest they convert JJW to a centerfielder,

not sure that will ever happen though.
He's a butcher in right, why would anyone think he could play center?
Hasn't he only been playing SS/2B since we drafted him?

I didn't know he was playing some RF at Memphis, is he?
Wetherholt is who JJW is not JW Jordan Walker
I said "JJW " (re: my post again)

Lightening Rod got confused.
My Bad, had me excited for a minute. :lol:
Mort Gage
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Posts: 2101
Joined: 31 May 2023 13:27 pm

Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Mort Gage »

Lightning Rod wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:50 am
Mort Gage wrote: 16 Aug 2025 10:09 am
rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
And there you have it. I want to believe in Scott but this team needs a solid two-way player who can lock down CF for the next 5+ years. Once they have that the rest of the OF is much easier to fill out.
If you have a guys in the corner outfield positions that can handle the bat you can keep a guy like Scott in CF. Unfortunately, our outfielders are inept at every position, and Scott doesn't hit enough to be a starter. He hits too many pop ups and K's too often, he's your fourth outfielder on most teams.
That's another way to build it. If you have stars in left and right like Holliday and Berkman you can have a steady guy like Jay in CF.
Rojo Johnson
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Re: Our outfield vs other outfields

Post by Rojo Johnson »

rockondlouie wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:54 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: 16 Aug 2025 09:14 am
EastCoastDave wrote: 15 Aug 2025 20:09 pm I’m not very high on our outfielders individually or collectively. Each player who appears there has some strengths and weaknesses. Jordan has a lot of potential. Same with Scott. Noot, not so much, in my opinion. Burley is a good hitter, but his defense is only adequate. In the minors, there isn’t an outfielder I’m waiting to see on the Big League roster. Anyone else have a thought on our outfielders?
I'm waiting for the comparison of "our OF vs others.'
LF
.221 .310 .365 .675
21st lowest OPS in MLB

CF
.220 .302 .299 .601
28th lowest OPS in MLB

RF
.243 .304 .387 .691
19th lowest OPS in MLB
Pathetic. How can you miss so badly on ALL THREE OF positions, Moe? My goodness you are inept at what you claim you can do. It will be happy times when you are gone in a few long weeks.
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