Question about Oli

[JuanAgosto]

I wonder if kept, marmol would be allowed to make a lineup without his boss meddling?

I don't believe Mo sets the lineup, order, bullpen moves, etc.

I believe Mo sets the roster, negotiates contracts, etc.

This was evident in the Jordan Walker moves in the 2nd half last year, where Mo brought Walker back up, Oli didn't play Walker, and Mo sent him back down, saying he needed the ABs.

Mo may not set the lineup, but he has influence beyond setting the roster.

I am sure he has offered his opinion, but I doubt it is ever an order or a mandate from the front office on lineup construction. If that were the case, it would have been leaked by Matheny or Bubbles by now.

Even giving an opinion is too much. The pobo/gm should let the manager do his job without opinions or advice. John boy has enough trouble doing his own job.

[ScotchMIrish]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

[JuanAgosto]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

Its not ancient history and it wasn't his first year. His team won a division in '22 thanks to outstanding performance from Goldschmidt, Pujols, and Arenado. Oli strutted into '23 like he was some hardass that invented the game. It didn't take him long to show his true colors and look like a clown.

[hugeCardfan]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

[JuanAgosto]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

[hugeCardfan]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

[hugeCardfan]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

Its not ancient history and it wasn't his first year. His team won a division in '22 thanks to outstanding performance from Goldschmidt, Pujols, and Arenado. Oli strutted into '23 like he was some hardass that invented the game. It didn't take him long to show his true colors and look like a clown.

It was his first year with a terrible team. We had pitching and 2 top 3 MVP's in '22. There was no reason to panic until '23. Not really buying your caricature.

[Melville]

It’s funny how people when the cardinals went 19-8 in may were saying oli is going to win manager of the year the team loves to play for him plays hard for him the team is great it’s going to win 90-94 games then they go 8-16 in July and now it’s the team sucks it’s not olis fault. Oli gets credit when they are winning and none of the blame when they are losing

Not here.
I am the most consistent person you will ever find.
The Marmot should be fired.
Long ago.
Period.

[Melville]

Bottom line.
As I was first and best to identify and explain to all, the organization suffers from a TOXIC CULTURE and has for several years.
Super Slo Mo created it.
The Marmot was hired to embrace and practice it.
Both must go.

[ScotchMIrish]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

He went public to humiliate the player. That's a stunt unless he's a jerk which I wouldn't assert.

[hugeCardfan]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

He went public to humiliate the player. That's a stunt unless he's a jerk which I wouldn't assert.

Agree to disagree.

[RichieRichSTL]

-Terrible in game Manager, gets out maneuvered by other teams Manager

-Shows no creativity helping his offensively challenged team score runs

-Poor lineup construction

-Plays favorites (re: Burleson, Siani, Pages) too much

-Froze in the most important game of his career, Game 1 vs Phillies

- #1 Reason:
Has Mo's STANK all over him! Returning him is nothing more than a continuation of the slide this team has taken under his leadership


The one thing he's finally doing well is running the bullpen.

Other than that he's been over-his-head from the day he was hired and has shown very little GROWTH.

Bringing him back would be a huge marketing mistake, Oli back will NOT sell tickets.

C. Bloom deserves to bring in his Manager w/an almost all new coaching staff (I may keep J. Jay/D. Descalso if I was Bloom).

This has to be a 100% fresh start or BDWJr has failed again.

JMO

Im not a huge Oli hater but I dont think he elevates anyone either. Rocks #1 reason is good enough for me and can't be over stated.

Agreed. It'd be one thing if Mo was retiring on top or recently on top. But this will likely be the 3rd straight season they don't make the playoffs, with the 2023 disaster in there. Why would you keep a significant residual element of a failing regime? What message does that send?

The message RR would be:
"DON'T buy tickets since you're going to see the same team, being run by the same field Manager, you've been seeing since his hire"!

Precisely my point.

If the team constructed will be somewhat determined on attendance, why would you make a move that depresses attendance?

Besides, bringing Oli back would be immediately taken as Bloom has limited authority from ownership, regardless of the truth of it. However Bloom personally views Oli, he must see the signal it would send to fans keeping him. Fans would just see him as POBO with limited independence.

[ScotchMIrish]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

He went public to humiliate the player. That's a stunt unless he's a jerk which I wouldn't assert.

Agree to disagree.

We agree.

[JuanAgosto]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

Its not ancient history and it wasn't his first year. His team won a division in '22 thanks to outstanding performance from Goldschmidt, Pujols, and Arenado. Oli strutted into '23 like he was some hardass that invented the game. It didn't take him long to show his true colors and look like a clown.

It was his first year with a terrible team. We had pitching and 2 top 3 MVP's in '22. There was no reason to panic until '23. Not really buying your caricature.

What are you not buying? Everything i stated indeed happened. Once the team struggled, oli melted down. His lack of leadership was exposed. Nothing to doubt, it is factual.

[JuanAgosto]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.