Question about Oli

[JuanAgosto]

I wonder if kept, marmol would be allowed to make a lineup without his boss meddling?

I don't believe Mo sets the lineup, order, bullpen moves, etc.

I believe Mo sets the roster, negotiates contracts, etc.

This was evident in the Jordan Walker moves in the 2nd half last year, where Mo brought Walker back up, Oli didn't play Walker, and Mo sent him back down, saying he needed the ABs.

Mo may not set the lineup, but he has influence beyond setting the roster.

[Basil Shabazz]

I wonder if kept, marmol would be allowed to make a lineup without his boss meddling?

I don't believe Mo sets the lineup, order, bullpen moves, etc.

I believe Mo sets the roster, negotiates contracts, etc.

This was evident in the Jordan Walker moves in the 2nd half last year, where Mo brought Walker back up, Oli didn't play Walker, and Mo sent him back down, saying he needed the ABs.

Mo may not set the lineup, but he has influence beyond setting the roster.

I am sure he has offered his opinion, but I doubt it is ever an order or a mandate from the front office on lineup construction. If that were the case, it would have been leaked by Matheny or Bubbles by now.

[2ninr]

-Terrible in game Manager, gets out maneuvered by other teams Manager

-Shows no creativity helping his offensively challenged team score runs

-Poor lineup construction

-Plays favorites (re: Burleson, Siani, Pages) too much

-Froze in the most important game of his career, Game 1 vs Phillies

- #1 Reason:
Has Mo's STANK all over him! Returning him is nothing more than a continuation of the slide this team has taken under his leadership


The one thing he's finally doing well is running the bullpen.

Other than that he's been over-his-head from the day he was hired and has shown very little GROWTH.

Bringing him back would be a huge marketing mistake, Oli back will NOT sell tickets.

C. Bloom deserves to bring in his Manager w/an almost all new coaching staff (I may keep J. Jay/D. Descalso if I was Bloom).

This has to be a 100% fresh start or BDWJr has failed again.

JMO

Im not a huge Oli hater but I dont think he elevates anyone either. Rocks #1 reason is good enough for me and can't be over stated.

[RichieRichSTL]

It’s funny how people when the cardinals went 19-8 in may were saying oli is going to win manager of the year the team loves to play for him plays hard for him the team is great it’s going to win 90-94 games then they go 8-16 in July and now it’s the team sucks it’s not olis fault. Oli gets credit when they are winning and none of the blame when they are losing

Milwaukee started out rough too. This is why we don't start the playoffs or pass out awards after 60 games. It appears the league caught up with our pitching. We all knew our pitching was shaky.

Oli is not specifically to blame about our roster construction. However, he has done nothing to distinguish himself either. Shildt always got his teams to the postseason, even with a poorly constructed roster, without a resurgent Pujols, as in 2021. His teams were fundamentally sound and it is clear now that he wasnt afraid to push for more resources.

Oli got the job because he was willing to be a Mo puppet, which is a strike against him. He hasn't given a strong reason why he should keep it. Fair or not, most other teams with the Cardinals expectations would have fired him during or after 2023. Does anyone think he is the best option available on the market?

Unless he gives a (bleep) good reason, keeping Oli would look like an ownership forced move on Bloom.

[RichieRichSTL]

-Terrible in game Manager, gets out maneuvered by other teams Manager

-Shows no creativity helping his offensively challenged team score runs

-Poor lineup construction

-Plays favorites (re: Burleson, Siani, Pages) too much

-Froze in the most important game of his career, Game 1 vs Phillies

- #1 Reason:
Has Mo's STANK all over him! Returning him is nothing more than a continuation of the slide this team has taken under his leadership


The one thing he's finally doing well is running the bullpen.

Other than that he's been over-his-head from the day he was hired and has shown very little GROWTH.

Bringing him back would be a huge marketing mistake, Oli back will NOT sell tickets.

C. Bloom deserves to bring in his Manager w/an almost all new coaching staff (I may keep J. Jay/D. Descalso if I was Bloom).

This has to be a 100% fresh start or BDWJr has failed again.

JMO

Im not a huge Oli hater but I dont think he elevates anyone either. Rocks #1 reason is good enough for me and can't be over stated.

Agreed. It'd be one thing if Mo was retiring on top or recently on top. But this will likely be the 3rd straight season they don't make the playoffs, with the 2023 disaster in there. Why would you keep a significant residual element of a failing regime? What message does that send?

[ScotchMIrish]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

[rockondlouie]

-Terrible in game Manager, gets out maneuvered by other teams Manager

-Shows no creativity helping his offensively challenged team score runs

-Poor lineup construction

-Plays favorites (re: Burleson, Siani, Pages) too much

-Froze in the most important game of his career, Game 1 vs Phillies

- #1 Reason:
Has Mo's STANK all over him! Returning him is nothing more than a continuation of the slide this team has taken under his leadership


The one thing he's finally doing well is running the bullpen.

Other than that he's been over-his-head from the day he was hired and has shown very little GROWTH.

Bringing him back would be a huge marketing mistake, Oli back will NOT sell tickets.

C. Bloom deserves to bring in his Manager w/an almost all new coaching staff (I may keep J. Jay/D. Descalso if I was Bloom).

This has to be a 100% fresh start or BDWJr has failed again.

JMO

Im not a huge Oli hater but I dont think he elevates anyone either. Rocks #1 reason is good enough for me and can't be over stated.

Agreed. It'd be one thing if Mo was retiring on top or recently on top. But this will likely be the 3rd straight season they don't make the playoffs, with the 2023 disaster in there. Why would you keep a significant residual element of a failing regime? What message does that send?

The message RR would be:
"DON'T buy tickets since you're going to see the same team, being run by the same field Manager, you've been seeing since his hire"!

[11WSChamps]

Terrible leadership, situational awareness, and presence. I have elaborated plenty on these things in the past and honestly don't have the inclination to get back into it.

I was always told that when you walk into a room, you should know who the manager/leader is by their dress, demeanor, and appearance. How they interact and how they carry themselves. Oli does not elevate himself naturally. His elevation is forced, which makes him come across as prickly, insecure, and egotistical.

Don't know how you can say it any better than that.

You look in that dugout and you wouldn't know who the manager is if you didn't know better.

I will add the cavalier attitude about losing. Players in the dugout during the game laughing when the team is getting beat.

You never saw that [shirt] when LaRussa, Pujols or Yadi was here.

I look in the dugout and know who the manager is..
Not sure how you fail at that.

I said if you didn't know better.

And what I do know is that you don't.

Yes, you obviously don't know better...that's on you. Your failure

Says the consummate dumb[ash].

[Cardinals4Life]

All of you who are in the "Fire Marmol" crowd, what has he done or not done that causes you to beat that drum on here constantly. He doesn't decide the talent on the field. You really can't blame him when Gorman strikes out 3 times or when Arenado fails in a big situation. He's supposed to put players in a position to succeed, but you have to have to players with talent to do that. Same with the pitching. He has to decide who takes the hill but he can't throw the pitches. What exactly to you see as a deficit in the managing area. No platitudes and in all seriousness, please inform me.

Where to start.....

Terrible lineups (Hitting guys where they don't belong - i.e. Goldy as a tablesetter with Noot as a MOTO hitter, refusing to move players out of spots when they are slumping - i.e. Donovan as leadoff currently.)

Pulling starters WAY too early. (Does it all the time. Biggest example was pulling Quintana in the playoff game!)

Poor use of bullpen. Uses too many guys for no reason at times.

No feel for the game. Makes poor decisions, frequently.

Arrogant.

[Bomber1]

-Terrible in game Manager, gets out maneuvered by other teams Manager

-Shows no creativity helping his offensively challenged team score runs

-Poor lineup construction

-Plays favorites (re: Burleson, Siani, Pages) too much

-Froze in the most important game of his career, Game 1 vs Phillies

- #1 Reason:
Has Mo's STANK all over him! Returning him is nothing more than a continuation of the slide this team has taken under his leadership


The one thing he's finally doing well is running the bullpen.

Other than that he's been over-his-head from the day he was hired and has shown very little GROWTH.

Bringing him back would be a huge marketing mistake, Oli back will NOT sell tickets.

C. Bloom deserves to bring in his Manager w/an almost all new coaching staff (I may keep J. Jay/D. Descalso if I was Bloom).

This has to be a 100% fresh start or BDWJr has failed again.

JMO

Im not a huge Oli hater but I dont think he elevates anyone either. Rocks #1 reason is good enough for me and can't be over stated.

Agree 100%.

[ilcubuffs]

"So much nothing in here that actually states how Oli fails. Just once, post an actual continued failure not some generalization of brewers vs Cards."

Reading comprehension is just not for you.

Let me help:

1. "Fellow posters have covered the deficiency Marmot the Pretend MLB Manager exhibits. I would add to see his deficiency in action watch a Brewer game and then watch a Cardinal game." Simply means I am concurring with previous posters on their views on reasons Marmot should be fired. Added the point to view the stated issues watch a Brewer and Cardinal game. Not only a concurrence with posters but also way to validate observation.

2. "Brewer players know their fundamentals - bunting, base running, throw to the right base, et al. Cardinal players can't bunt, never heard of hit and run, et al. It is supposed to start with manager." It is called fundamentals. The basics. Thus in this context Marmot is NOT a qualified manager because he does not require fundamentals be taught or used. IF he did require fundamental teaching, practiced, and/or utilized they would not lose a season series to Roc's.

See not hard at all.

But it is obvious when you boldly state "So much nothing in here that actually states how ........... Just once, post an actual continued failure not some generalization of brewers vs Cards. "" you do not know your as^ from any other hole in the ground. You never state anything but dribble with snarky attempted humor. Girls kicking your as& on playground left you a troglodyte

[Colotiger]

Let’s put it this way. If you can fire Mike Shildt, you can certainly fire Oli.

[hugeCardfan]

Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

[CCard]

All of you who are in the "Fire Marmol" crowd, what has he done or not done that causes you to beat that drum on here constantly. He doesn't decide the talent on the field. You really can't blame him when Gorman strikes out 3 times or when Arenado fails in a big situation. He's supposed to put players in a position to succeed, but you have to have to players with talent to do that. Same with the pitching. He has to decide who takes the hill but he can't throw the pitches. What exactly to you see as a deficit in the managing area. No platitudes and in all seriousness, please inform me.

Where to start.....

Terrible lineups (Hitting guys where they don't belong - i.e. Goldy as a tablesetter with Noot as a MOTO hitter, refusing to move players out of spots when they are slumping - i.e. Donovan as leadoff currently.)

Pulling starters WAY too early. (Does it all the time. Biggest example was pulling Quintana in the playoff game!)

Poor use of bullpen. Uses too many guys for no reason at times.

No feel for the game. Makes poor decisions, frequently.

Arrogant.

Okay.
1. I'm not one of those people that believe a batter hits better because of where he hits in the lineup. (With the caveat of if he has stern protection behind him.)
2. You're against pulling starters early and yet the Brewers do it even more often.
3. I haven't noticed that he uses his bullpen any different than TLR did. Bringing in a lefty if there are at least two lefty hitters coming up. Using too many guys for no reason? I don't know about that but pitchers can't just absorb a ton of innings because someone wants them to. They do have pitch counts and kind of depends on who they will be facing. I'm not saying he hasn't done a good or bad job, I'm saying that I don't have specific instances where your theory would be proved. I don't know how he could use too many guys though and I assume you aren't privy to the inner machinations of the bullpen and the pitchers so you don't know either.
4. Feel for the game? I don't know how you prove or disprove that. I guess that's an opinion?
To be honest here, the points you bring up seem kind of ambiguous to me. Maybe things would be better with better talent. You think?

[scoutyjones2]

Terrible leadership, situational awareness, and presence. I have elaborated plenty on these things in the past and honestly don't have the inclination to get back into it.

I was always told that when you walk into a room, you should know who the manager/leader is by their dress, demeanor, and appearance. How they interact and how they carry themselves. Oli does not elevate himself naturally. His elevation is forced, which makes him come across as prickly, insecure, and egotistical.

Don't know how you can say it any better than that.

You look in that dugout and you wouldn't know who the manager is if you didn't know better.

I will add the cavalier attitude about losing. Players in the dugout during the game laughing when the team is getting beat.

You never saw that [shirt] when LaRussa, Pujols or Yadi was here.

I look in the dugout and know who the manager is..
Not sure how you fail at that.

I said if you didn't know better.

And what I do know is that you don't.

Yes, you obviously don't know better...that's on you. Your failure

Says the consummate dumb[ash].

That is true

[swatski]

I want a guy with experience in identifying and putting together a team instead of a yes man just throwing a roster handed to him on the field.