Dodgers and Yankees pursuing Donovan

[hugeCardfan]

Having trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Teams get desperate. When they are in the race and they just need a piece or two that might put them over the top, they might do things that they might not normally do. Plus, Donovan is a complete player now. He's entering into his prime now. It might be worth it for that team to trade a young player with a ton of potential, but is going to take a few years before he reaches his prime. The team needs help now, they make a deal.

For the record, I think Donovan stays put.

I get it. I'm just not trusting our talent evaluators enough to find the player worthy of trading for a complete player like Donovan. He can be an icon as far as I'm concerned.

lol

Again I like Donovan, he’s a solid player. But ICON? Please.

A team could go further and do worse. Keeping him in St Louis for his career isn't an outlandish suggestion. He is symbolic of hard work and excellence day in day out. Nobody is trying to turn him into Albert Pujols, except perhaps you with a suggested "build around potential and more".

[Janssen]

Donovan is a much better all around player than Jonathan India and he returned a number 2 starting, cost controlled starting pitcher!

[hugeCardfan]

NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Fair points, but you have to give to get to improve the team's chances at truly contending. And here's the biggest obstacle to wanting to keep him. There are 2 years of control left, so his trade value will dip as that control period dwindles. And it's not likely he will agree to any extension offered by the Cardinals whose owner clearly wants a reduced payroll. So he most likely will want to test free agency than agree to what he might consider a low-ball offer by the Cardinals. So keeping him until free agency doesn't seem like a good strategy unless his potential free agency value plummets because his production drops or he suffers a serious injury. And those outcomes wouldn't be good for the Cardinals, either.

I don't think any of that is a given. Donovan is just the kind of player we should consider giving an extension with a fair offer. He isn't a superstar and gets no superstar offer but with the right amount both he and team can be happy. Lots of teams manage the happy medium and we need to be one of them if we are to be taken seriously and compete well.

I guess you have more faith in ownership than I do. They're starting to look at players in expense mode with a goal of reducing payroll. All the money being plowed into the farm isn't for nothing. We shall see whether some kind of medium path ($175 million payroll?), if taken, will be enough to extend Donovan if they even decide not to trade him at the deadline or in the offseason. Bloom will factor in here as well, of course, if Donovan is still here after the season.

You plow money into the farm to develop players who you will ostensibly extend when they prove to be worth it.... There is nothing inconsistent about extending Donovan. I have enough faith in ownership that when the POBO makes good decisions ownership will support them.

[Red7]

Donovan is a much better all around player than Jonathan India and he returned a number 2 starting, cost controlled starting pitcher!

You mean Brady Singer, he of a 7-8 record and 4.83 ERA? That’s about what I’d expect for Donovan

[greyhawk]

Aaron Judge being evaluated for apparent elbow injury --- Donovan, Burleson or even Nootbaar might be a decent pickup for them if he has to miss any time.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/aaro ... g-results/

[icon]

NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Fair points, but you have to give to get to improve the team's chances at truly contending. And here's the biggest obstacle to wanting to keep him. There are 2 years of control left, so his trade value will dip as that control period dwindles. And it's not likely he will agree to any extension offered by the Cardinals whose owner clearly wants a reduced payroll. So he most likely will want to test free agency than agree to what he might consider a low-ball offer by the Cardinals. So keeping him until free agency doesn't seem like a good strategy unless his potential free agency value plummets because his production drops or he suffers a serious injury. And those outcomes wouldn't be good for the Cardinals, either.

I don't think any of that is a given. Donovan is just the kind of player we should consider giving an extension with a fair offer. He isn't a superstar and gets no superstar offer but with the right amount both he and team can be happy. Lots of teams manage the happy medium and we need to be one of them if we are to be taken seriously and compete well.

I guess you have more faith in ownership than I do. They're starting to look at players in expense mode with a goal of reducing payroll. All the money being plowed into the farm isn't for nothing. We shall see whether some kind of medium path ($175 million payroll?), if taken, will be enough to extend Donovan if they even decide not to trade him at the deadline or in the offseason. Bloom will factor in here as well, of course, if Donovan is still here after the season.

You plow money into the farm to develop players who you will ostensibly extend when they prove to be worth it.... There is nothing inconsistent about extending Donovan. I have enough faith in ownership that when the POBO makes good decisions ownership will support them.

I hope you're right, but it wouldn't surprise me if ownership's long-term goal involves a lower payroll than fans are used to.

[hugeCardfan]

NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Fair points, but you have to give to get to improve the team's chances at truly contending. And here's the biggest obstacle to wanting to keep him. There are 2 years of control left, so his trade value will dip as that control period dwindles. And it's not likely he will agree to any extension offered by the Cardinals whose owner clearly wants a reduced payroll. So he most likely will want to test free agency than agree to what he might consider a low-ball offer by the Cardinals. So keeping him until free agency doesn't seem like a good strategy unless his potential free agency value plummets because his production drops or he suffers a serious injury. And those outcomes wouldn't be good for the Cardinals, either.

I don't think any of that is a given. Donovan is just the kind of player we should consider giving an extension with a fair offer. He isn't a superstar and gets no superstar offer but with the right amount both he and team can be happy. Lots of teams manage the happy medium and we need to be one of them if we are to be taken seriously and compete well.

I guess you have more faith in ownership than I do. They're starting to look at players in expense mode with a goal of reducing payroll. All the money being plowed into the farm isn't for nothing. We shall see whether some kind of medium path ($175 million payroll?), if taken, will be enough to extend Donovan if they even decide not to trade him at the deadline or in the offseason. Bloom will factor in here as well, of course, if Donovan is still here after the season.

You plow money into the farm to develop players who you will ostensibly extend when they prove to be worth it.... There is nothing inconsistent about extending Donovan. I have enough faith in ownership that when the POBO makes good decisions ownership will support them.

I hope you're right, but it wouldn't surprise me if ownership's long-term goal involves a lower payroll than fans are used to.

On the other hand, ownership is reliant on fan participation so must have as it's goal quality players for a competitive field.

[45s]

Having trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Teams get desperate. When they are in the race and they just need a piece or two that might put them over the top, they might do things that they might not normally do. Plus, Donovan is a complete player now. He's entering into his prime now. It might be worth it for that team to trade a young player with a ton of potential, but is going to take a few years before he reaches his prime. The team needs help now, they make a deal.

For the record, I think Donovan stays put.

I get it. I'm just not trusting our talent evaluators enough to find the player worthy of trading for a complete player like Donovan. He can be an icon as far as I'm concerned.

If he’s as good as you say……and perhaps he is…..he will hit the free agent market and likely be an “icon” for a different team…

His value as a trade chip is never going to be higher

[CCard]

I believe they'll regret trading Donny away. I think he's the only Cardinal with over 2 WAR. I guess it depends on what you get back, but I would suggest no lottery tickets. Trade him for established major league talent or don't trade him. There's a reason why the Dodgers and Yanks want him.

[Wattage]

I believe they'll regret trading Donny away. I think he's the only Cardinal with over 2 WAR. I guess it depends on what you get back, but I would suggest no lottery tickets. Trade him for established major league talent or don't trade him. There's a reason why the Dodgers and Yanks want him.

If you trade donovan it has to be for another mlb ready player. No trading him for prospects or lottery tickets.

[kyace]

The issue revolves around Arenado being on this roster for the next year. Wetherholt will be ready to take over at second, they are talking about Herrera playing some left field. They have Nootbaar and Burlerson in the outfield and what about Gorman? There is a roster crunch so somebody will have to be moved. Do you want to sell very low on Nootbaar and Gorman? Do you sell high on Burlerson a player with 3 more years of control? They have a need for a right handed power bat, how do you get that or is Herrera that bat?
The big question is what do the Cardinals see as their timeline to compete as a serious contender not just sneaking in as a third wildcard. If it is 2027 or later then that will shape their decisions.
If they think they are a couple of years away and the Dodgers come up with a offer of a couple of top prospects seen as ready with the Cards timeline then they may pull the trigger on a Donovan trade

[moose-and-squirrel]

Yankees just traded for Rosario/UT WSH

[renostl]

Donovan is a much better all around player than Jonathan India and he returned a number 2 starting, cost controlled starting pitcher!

It's the great debate, an everyday player for pitching.
Not sure Singer is a #2 but Donovan should get you a #2 if traded, he's better
than India as you stated. Unless India played the Cards every game.
They wouldn't get a #2 with a deadline deal, IMO, contenders
don't give away a #2 down the stretch. The exception might be if Donnie went to a
team that expected to be in it like Arizona, then its a baseball trade.

Moving Donovan also means committing to another player that hasn't necessarily earned it.
Creates an over reliance on unproven players, It's part of how the Cards fell
a bit. Not knowing the Cards future plans or Donnovan's plans, I'd prefer keeping
him and trading elsewhere.

[renostl]

The issue revolves around Arenado being on this roster for the next year. Wetherholt will be ready to take over at second, they are talking about Herrera playing some left field. They have Nootbaar and Burlerson in the outfield and what about Gorman? There is a roster crunch so somebody will have to be moved. Do you want to sell very low on Nootbaar and Gorman? Do you sell high on Burlerson a player with 3 more years of control? They have a need for a right handed power bat, how do you get that or is Herrera that bat?
The big question is what do the Cardinals see as their timeline to compete as a serious contender not just sneaking in as a third wildcard. If it is 2027 or later then that will shape their decisions.
If they think they are a couple of years away and the Dodgers come up with a offer of a couple of top prospects seen as ready with the Cards timeline then they may pull the trigger on a Donovan trade

Tell NA that his current level of player is that of a part time player.
Trade others if they can't win a MLB job, with full realization contending teams
don't want them, but building teams might and they might have a player
that is starting to become either expensive or redundant on their roster.

Also I'd not eliminate JJ in the OF, a Jackson Merrill type move if the infield
remains crowded a season more.
Herrera needs a position, even if it's a 50 game catchers vs teams that don't run and some 1B.
Not sure OF will be his deal. He'd be high on my trade list since Burleson does those 2 and likely better
at it. Noot still does not bring health.

[hugeCardfan]

Having trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Teams get desperate. When they are in the race and they just need a piece or two that might put them over the top, they might do things that they might not normally do. Plus, Donovan is a complete player now. He's entering into his prime now. It might be worth it for that team to trade a young player with a ton of potential, but is going to take a few years before he reaches his prime. The team needs help now, they make a deal.

For the record, I think Donovan stays put.

I get it. I'm just not trusting our talent evaluators enough to find the player worthy of trading for a complete player like Donovan. He can be an icon as far as I'm concerned.

If he’s as good as you say……and perhaps he is…..he will hit the free agent market and likely be an “icon” for a different team…

His value as a trade chip is never going to be higher

Weird post. If our intent is to help other teams, well OK then....

[CCard]

I believe they'll regret trading Donny away. I think he's the only Cardinal with over 2 WAR. I guess it depends on what you get back, but I would suggest no lottery tickets. Trade him for established major league talent or don't trade him. There's a reason why the Dodgers and Yanks want him.

If you trade donovan it has to be for another mlb ready player. No trading him for prospects or lottery tickets.

Agreed. Enough with being another team's farm system.