The biggest gamble would be staying pat

[craviduce]

With dubious starting pitching, inconsistent offense and some potential FAs.

Ideally, the Cardinals do some selling and still stay competitive for a wildcard this season. It could be done with some savvy maneuvering.

please, explain this "savvy maneuvering"

I'm intrigued

Trading potential free agents for something that will not only plug in some holes this season but help for the future. As well as maneuvering some NTCs. Which could be tough.

in theory...yeah, sure. But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

Further, who is taking on Pozo, Burleson, Walker and VS2 and giving us back better?

Burleson would probably get a really good pitcher or pitching prospect. But I just don't see the organization wanting to let an outstanding hitter like him go, right now.

yeah, he's okay this year, not bad. But right now, he's worse than the starting 1B and worse than the starting DH. That's makes him expendable. Get a prospect back who might help in 2 years

He's also the team's #3 or #4 batter in the team's lineup, right now. Who do you replace that with without hurting the team somewhere else?

you said that we would replace him with a better player from the Dodgers...this is your scenario....and we could do it without trading any of our Top 30 prospects.....it's called "Savvy Maneuvering"...it's in your OP

[Shady]

Trading expiring contracts to fill holes. Obtain a RH bat or pitching.

Bingo.

that's not a Savvy Move...that's a move that people on here have been clamoring for....the only debate there was our return from the expiring contracts...you get better prospects back than a veterans

You missed this part. "And getting some salary relief by maneuvering some NTCs. In Arenado's case, opening up a needed position".

who is going to give us salary relief and also give us a better players than Nado? Who is going to give us those Top of the Rotation starters you've promised?

saying "3 team deal", doesn't mean we automatically get all the things we won't in a trade. I don't think you understand how trading works. We keep coming back to the Princess Bride.... I don't that word means you think it means

And "You still don't see Burleson's value, production/salary-wise".

[craviduce]

Trading expiring contracts to fill holes. Obtain a RH bat or pitching.

Bingo.

that's not a Savvy Move...that's a move that people on here have been clamoring for....the only debate there was our return from the expiring contracts...you get better prospects back than a veterans

You missed this part. "And getting some salary relief by maneuvering some NTCs. In Arenado's case, opening up a needed position".

who is going to give us salary relief and also give us a better players than Nado? Who is going to give us those Top of the Rotation starters you've promised?

saying "3 team deal", doesn't mean we automatically get all the things we won't in a trade. I don't think you understand how trading works. We keep coming back to the Princess Bride.... I don't that word means you think it means

And "You still don't see Burleson's value, production/salary-wise".

the value you want from Burleson is a better player than Burleson from the Dodgers...that's your evaluation, not mine. The Dodgers won't give you better than Burleson

you said we needed to trade with the Dodgers get to the Wild Card. We needed to trade our bad players and expiring contracts. Donovan, Winn and Contreras are the only ones playing well.

[Shady]

Shady’s recurring “theory” (articulated in countless repetitive threads) is the Dodgers—who have one of the best FOs in baseball—are somehow champing at the bit to trade a dollar for 50 cents.

You don't seem to understand that the Dodgers are willing to pay a lot to win a World Series. Not just sneak in as a wildcard.

Funny, I wrote about that precise thing in a reply to you just yesterday. But of course you completely ignored it because you were too busy spamming the forum with additional repetitive, attention-seeking threads. You don’t care about “baseball talk,” you just want attention.

The Dodgers could very well be the team that pays handsomely (player/players traded) for Helsley.

Why? The Dodgers have one of the best FOs in baseball—certainly better and more sophisticated than the Cardinals’. Why would they agree to exchange a dollar for 50 cents?

The exploitable arbitrage with the Dodgers is that a win in LA is worth more than in St. Louis. That works to the Cardinals’ advantage, but it only goes so far. Sorry, but the Cardinals aren’t even close to getting someone like De Paula (whom you’ve mentioned several times as a target—34.1 BTV) unless they dip (deeply) into their cost-controlled assets.

By the way, you might want to check the standings—the Dodgers are in no danger of “sneaking in as a wildcard.”

"But of course you completely ignored it". I don't cater to jerkwads.

[rockondlouie]

But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

DBacks (Goldy) and Rockies (NADO) learns this lesson the hard way.

[Shady]

Trading expiring contracts to fill holes. Obtain a RH bat or pitching.

Bingo.

that's not a Savvy Move...that's a move that people on here have been clamoring for....the only debate there was our return from the expiring contracts...you get better prospects back than a veterans

You missed this part. "And getting some salary relief by maneuvering some NTCs. In Arenado's case, opening up a needed position".

who is going to give us salary relief and also give us a better players than Nado? Who is going to give us those Top of the Rotation starters you've promised?

saying "3 team deal", doesn't mean we automatically get all the things we won't in a trade. I don't think you understand how trading works. We keep coming back to the Princess Bride.... I don't that word means you think it means

And "You still don't see Burleson's value, production/salary-wise".

the value you want from Burleson is a better player than Burleson from the Dodgers...that's your evaluation, not mine. The Dodgers won't give you better than Burleson

you said we needed to trade with the Dodgers get to the Wild Card. We needed to trade our bad players and expiring contracts. Donovan, Winn and Contreras are the only ones playing well.

For now, but like Burleson, Contreras and Winn are inconsistent. And Contreras and Winn are too vulnerable to the strikeout. Something Burleson usually is not. And "you said we needed to trade with the Dodgers get to the Wild Card". What?

[craviduce]

But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

DBacks (Goldy) and Rockies (NADO) learns this lesson the hard way.

we didn't give them any bad major league players. Kelly was blocked by Yadi, and a former 1st round pitcher in Weaver. ..... Nado we traded Gomber, who was good in the minors, and a bunch of young wild cards like Gil, Sommers and Montero, Loney

[craviduce]

Shady’s recurring “theory” (articulated in countless repetitive threads) is the Dodgers—who have one of the best FOs in baseball—are somehow champing at the bit to trade a dollar for 50 cents.

You don't seem to understand that the Dodgers are willing to pay a lot to win a World Series. Not just sneak in as a wildcard.

Funny, I wrote about that precise thing in a reply to you just yesterday. But of course you completely ignored it because you were too busy spamming the forum with additional repetitive, attention-seeking threads. You don’t care about “baseball talk,” you just want attention.

The Dodgers could very well be the team that pays handsomely (player/players traded) for Helsley.

Why? The Dodgers have one of the best FOs in baseball—certainly better and more sophisticated than the Cardinals’. Why would they agree to exchange a dollar for 50 cents?

The exploitable arbitrage with the Dodgers is that a win in LA is worth more than in St. Louis. That works to the Cardinals’ advantage, but it only goes so far. Sorry, but the Cardinals aren’t even close to getting someone like De Paula (whom you’ve mentioned several times as a target—34.1 BTV) unless they dip (deeply) into their cost-controlled assets.

By the way, you might want to check the standings—the Dodgers are in no danger of “sneaking in as a wildcard.”

"But of course you completely ignored it". I don't cater to jerkwads.

cut the hostilities....where's Elliot to put you in your place?

Don't tell me...it doesn't pertain you...that's right....only to us

[moose-and-squirrel]

But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

DBacks (Goldy) and Rockies (NADO) learns this lesson the hard way.

we didn't give them any bad major league players. Kelly was blocked by Yadi, and a former 1st round pitcher in Weaver. ..... Nado we traded Gomber, who was good in the minors, and a bunch of young wild cards like Gil, Sommers and Montero, Loney

COL took a bunch of prospects to dump salary.. we see how well that worked out for em

[craviduce]

But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

DBacks (Goldy) and Rockies (NADO) learns this lesson the hard way.

we didn't give them any bad major league players. Kelly was blocked by Yadi, and a former 1st round pitcher in Weaver. ..... Nado we traded Gomber, who was good in the minors, and a bunch of young wild cards like Gil, Sommers and Montero, Loney

COL took a bunch of prospects to dump salary.. we see how well that worked out for em

they took a classic McGwire or Holliday trade

[Shady]

Shady’s recurring “theory” (articulated in countless repetitive threads) is the Dodgers—who have one of the best FOs in baseball—are somehow champing at the bit to trade a dollar for 50 cents.

You don't seem to understand that the Dodgers are willing to pay a lot to win a World Series. Not just sneak in as a wildcard.

Funny, I wrote about that precise thing in a reply to you just yesterday. But of course you completely ignored it because you were too busy spamming the forum with additional repetitive, attention-seeking threads. You don’t care about “baseball talk,” you just want attention.

The Dodgers could very well be the team that pays handsomely (player/players traded) for Helsley.

Why? The Dodgers have one of the best FOs in baseball—certainly better and more sophisticated than the Cardinals’. Why would they agree to exchange a dollar for 50 cents?

The exploitable arbitrage with the Dodgers is that a win in LA is worth more than in St. Louis. That works to the Cardinals’ advantage, but it only goes so far. Sorry, but the Cardinals aren’t even close to getting someone like De Paula (whom you’ve mentioned several times as a target—34.1 BTV) unless they dip (deeply) into their cost-controlled assets.

By the way, you might want to check the standings—the Dodgers are in no danger of “sneaking in as a wildcard.”

"But of course you completely ignored it". I don't cater to jerkwads.

cut the hostilities....where's Elliot to put you in your place?

Don't tell me...it doesn't pertain you...that's right....only to us

OK, Guru, Your Majesty. Is that better?

[moose-and-squirrel]

But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

DBacks (Goldy) and Rockies (NADO) learns this lesson the hard way.

we didn't give them any bad major league players. Kelly was blocked by Yadi, and a former 1st round pitcher in Weaver. ..... Nado we traded Gomber, who was good in the minors, and a bunch of young wild cards like Gil, Sommers and Montero, Loney

COL took a bunch of prospects to dump salary.. we see how well that worked out for em

they took a classic McGwire or Holliday trade

yup.. which is why all this 'trade for prospects' talk can be a bit misguided. much higher chance of those prospects busting than making it, much less being very good players.
and no, you're not getting top 50 prospects for what we have to trade.. MAYBE for Donny.. prolly not tho

[craviduce]

Trading expiring contracts to fill holes. Obtain a RH bat or pitching.

Bingo.

that's not a Savvy Move...that's a move that people on here have been clamoring for....the only debate there was our return from the expiring contracts...you get better prospects back than a veterans

You missed this part. "And getting some salary relief by maneuvering some NTCs. In Arenado's case, opening up a needed position".

who is going to give us salary relief and also give us a better players than Nado? Who is going to give us those Top of the Rotation starters you've promised?

saying "3 team deal", doesn't mean we automatically get all the things we won't in a trade. I don't think you understand how trading works. We keep coming back to the Princess Bride.... I don't that word means you think it means

And "You still don't see Burleson's value, production/salary-wise".

the value you want from Burleson is a better player than Burleson from the Dodgers...that's your evaluation, not mine. The Dodgers won't give you better than Burleson

you said we needed to trade with the Dodgers get to the Wild Card. We needed to trade our bad players and expiring contracts. Donovan, Winn and Contreras are the only ones playing well.

For now, but like Burleson, Contreras and Winn are inconsistent. And Contreras and Winn are too vulnerable to the strikeout. Something Burleson usually is not. And "you said we needed to trade with the Dodgers get to the Wild Card". What?

17% K rate is very good....no one but you calls that "vulnerable". Or you didn't know the stat, and just made it up like normal?

[rightthinker4]

With dubious starting pitching, inconsistent offense and some potential FAs.

Ideally, the Cardinals do some selling and still stay competitive for a wildcard this season. It could be done with some savvy maneuvering.

Uh, are you thinking MO is a savy maneuverer?

[craviduce]

Shady’s recurring “theory” (articulated in countless repetitive threads) is the Dodgers—who have one of the best FOs in baseball—are somehow champing at the bit to trade a dollar for 50 cents.

You don't seem to understand that the Dodgers are willing to pay a lot to win a World Series. Not just sneak in as a wildcard.

Funny, I wrote about that precise thing in a reply to you just yesterday. But of course you completely ignored it because you were too busy spamming the forum with additional repetitive, attention-seeking threads. You don’t care about “baseball talk,” you just want attention.

The Dodgers could very well be the team that pays handsomely (player/players traded) for Helsley.

Why? The Dodgers have one of the best FOs in baseball—certainly better and more sophisticated than the Cardinals’. Why would they agree to exchange a dollar for 50 cents?

The exploitable arbitrage with the Dodgers is that a win in LA is worth more than in St. Louis. That works to the Cardinals’ advantage, but it only goes so far. Sorry, but the Cardinals aren’t even close to getting someone like De Paula (whom you’ve mentioned several times as a target—34.1 BTV) unless they dip (deeply) into their cost-controlled assets.

By the way, you might want to check the standings—the Dodgers are in no danger of “sneaking in as a wildcard.”

"But of course you completely ignored it". I don't cater to jerkwads.

cut the hostilities....where's Elliot to put you in your place?

Don't tell me...it doesn't pertain you...that's right....only to us

OK, Guru, Your Majesty. Is that better?

we're just having the Baseball Conversation you want. Simple debate, but you're name calling and insulting .

Where's Elliott? He needs to get you under control.!!

[craviduce]

But in reality... what teams would give you better players than the ones we'd be trading? Which team is going to take Mikolas, Pallante, and Gray and give us back better?

DBacks (Goldy) and Rockies (NADO) learns this lesson the hard way.

we didn't give them any bad major league players. Kelly was blocked by Yadi, and a former 1st round pitcher in Weaver. ..... Nado we traded Gomber, who was good in the minors, and a bunch of young wild cards like Gil, Sommers and Montero, Loney

COL took a bunch of prospects to dump salary.. we see how well that worked out for em

they took a classic McGwire or Holliday trade

yup.. which is why all this 'trade for prospects' talk can be a bit misguided. much higher chance of those prospects busting than making it, much less being very good players.
and no, you're not getting top 50 prospects for what we have to trade.. MAYBE for Donny.. prolly not tho

I'd rather get lottery ticket DSL pitchers/batters, than a veteran that we'll jettison at the end of the season...that doesn't make the team/organization better. Take a chance on the future, try to make something out of them. It likely won't work, but again, it's better than jettisoning a veteran, who can't/won't help us into the playoffs, with no compensation after the year is up