How much does Wetherholt factor into the trade deadline plans?

[Shady]

My prediction is Aranado stays, Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and Burleson to RF. Noot, Walker, and Gorman are odd men out and on the block. Add Helsley, Matz, Fedde, Maton, and Mikolas and the Cardinals have a ton of pieces to move. Add a RH OF slugger to slit with Burleson

The reason you want to trade Helsley, Matz, Maton, Fedde and Mikolas is the same reason they won't bring a lot in return.

They’d get a return on the first 3 without a doubt

Matz vastly overpaid in his walk year. Maton 34 years old and average stats. Both middle relievers. Helsley in his walk year. If they can get a lot I'd trade them without hesitation.

Matz has a 5:1 strikeout to walk ratio, a .641 OPS against, and a 2.90 FIP. Every contender would want that in their bullpen.

Maton makes nothing, has a 2.50 ERA and 2 HR allowed in his last 70 appearances, and has a .618 OPS against in 2025

I don’t think you know what “average stats” are.

H/9 52/50 K/9 52/46 ERA 3.29 34 years old. Walk year of his contract. If we can get a lot for him I'd jump all over the deal and send a private jet to pick up the future star prospect we get.

No need to patronize, no stars coming back for them.

I don’t know what your numbers (52/50, 52/46) are in reference to.

50 hits 52 innings. 46 strikeouts in 52 innings. ERA 3.29 Not great. Not terrible. Average. I doubt we will get much for him at his age. I'm also now ready to throw in the towel on the 2025 season. We'll see what the next 9 days look like.

I don't know whose stats you think you're posting, but they aren't Maton's.

Edit:

Oh, so it was Matz's stats: he's 27% above league average by ERA+. He is considerably above average, mostly due to being well above average at limiting HRs and walks, two stats you just happened to leave out. Average ERA in MLB this season is 4.08, so 3.29 is significantly better than average.

AOF is correct, you don't know what average stats are.

Okay. He is above average. $12 million is more than above average salary for a 34 year old relief pitcher. I suppose if the goal is to get rid of the remaining $4 million on his contract trading him makes sense but it's unlikely we get much for him in exchange. Maton is would likely bring something in return although he also is in his walk year which is a major factor in a trade.

The only name I see floated who would bring something significant in return is Donovan but I don't know why anybody would trade him.

4 million is nothing to a contending team wanting to shore up either the back end of their rotation or their bullpen for the stretch run. 4 million is also nothing to the Cardinals if they want to maximize their return in a trade, as the remaining money on Matz's contract has to be paid if he isn't traded.

Since we appear to be collapsing I'd say Maton and Matz both could get traded if there is a contended who is looking for bullpen help. I'll be surprised if we get much in return.

Helsley, Contreras and Gray have very good trade value. Obviously, there is an NTC issue with Contreras and Gray. And Arenado, somehow, needs to be moved to establish more room for up and comers.

[NYCardsFan]

Helsley, Contreras and Gray have very good trade value. Obviously, there is an NTC issue with Contreras and Gray. And Arenado, somehow, needs to be moved to establish more room for up and comers.

No, they really don’t. To use BTV as one directional indicator/example:

Helsley: 3.0
Contreras: -11.6
Gray: -12.2
Total: -20.8

I prob would quibble with the specific Contreras estimate—his contract doesn’t strike me as being that bad relative to his production—but directionally the total isn’t surprising: there isn’t a lot of value in two relatively expensive older FAs (esp Gray) and the expiring contract of a one-inning closer (who isn’t having a great season).

Unless the Cardinals trade some of their cost-controlled assets, they probably won’t get much more this year than they did at last year’s deadline, when the only asset they traded of any material value was Montgomery’s expiring contract.

That said, Mozeliak still should try to get what he can for Helsley, Matz, and Maton rather than letting them walk for nothing. There’s always a chance a team in a big market or on the cusp of the playoffs pays up for one last (and higher-value) marginal win.

[Shady]

Helsley, Contreras and Gray have very good trade value. Obviously, there is an NTC issue with Contreras and Gray. And Arenado, somehow, needs to be moved to establish more room for up and comers.

No, they really don’t. To use BTV as one directional indicator/example:

Helsley: 3.0
Contreras: -11.6
Gray: -12.2
Total: -20.8

I prob would quibble with the specific Contreras estimate—his contract doesn’t strike me as being that bad relative to his production—but directionally the total isn’t surprising: there isn’t a lot of value in two relatively expensive older FAs (esp Gray) and the expiring contract of a one-inning closer (who isn’t having a great season).

Unless the Cardinals trade some of their cost-controlled assets, they probably won’t get much more this year than they did at last year’s deadline, when the only asset they traded of any material value was Montgomery’s expiring contract.

That said, Mozeliak should still try to get what he can for Helsley and Matz rather than letting them walk for nothing. There’s always a chance a team in a big market or on the cusp of the playoffs pays up for one last (and higher-value) marginal win.

The Dodgers could very well be the team that pays handsomely (player/players traded) for Helsley.

[NYCardsFan]

Helsley, Contreras and Gray have very good trade value. Obviously, there is an NTC issue with Contreras and Gray. And Arenado, somehow, needs to be moved to establish more room for up and comers.

No, they really don’t. To use BTV as one directional indicator/example:

Helsley: 3.0
Contreras: -11.6
Gray: -12.2
Total: -20.8

I prob would quibble with the specific Contreras estimate—his contract doesn’t strike me as being that bad relative to his production—but directionally the total isn’t surprising: there isn’t a lot of value in two relatively expensive older FAs (esp Gray) and the expiring contract of a one-inning closer (who isn’t having a great season).

Unless the Cardinals trade some of their cost-controlled assets, they probably won’t get much more this year than they did at last year’s deadline, when the only asset they traded of any material value was Montgomery’s expiring contract.

That said, Mozeliak should still try to get what he can for Helsley and Matz rather than letting them walk for nothing. There’s always a chance a team in a big market or on the cusp of the playoffs pays up for one last (and higher-value) marginal win.

The Dodgers could very well be the team that pays handsomely (player/players traded) for Helsley.

Why? The Dodgers have one of the best FOs in baseball—certainly better and more sophisticated than the Cardinals’. Why would they agree to exchange a dollar for 50 cents?

The exploitable arbitrage with the Dodgers is that a win in LA is worth more than in St. Louis. That works to the Cardinals’ advantage, but it only goes so far. Sorry, but the Cardinals aren’t even close to getting someone like De Paula (whom you’ve mentioned several times as a target—34.1 BTV) unless they dip (deeply) into their cost-controlled assets.

[ScotchMIrish]

The reason you want to trade Helsley, Matz, Maton, Fedde and Mikolas is the same reason they won't bring a lot in return.

They’d get a return on the first 3 without a doubt

Matz vastly overpaid in his walk year. Maton 34 years old and average stats. Both middle relievers. Helsley in his walk year. If they can get a lot I'd trade them without hesitation.

Matz has a 5:1 strikeout to walk ratio, a .641 OPS against, and a 2.90 FIP. Every contender would want that in their bullpen.

Maton makes nothing, has a 2.50 ERA and 2 HR allowed in his last 70 appearances, and has a .618 OPS against in 2025

I don’t think you know what “average stats” are.

H/9 52/50 K/9 52/46 ERA 3.29 34 years old. Walk year of his contract. If we can get a lot for him I'd jump all over the deal and send a private jet to pick up the future star prospect we get.

No need to patronize, no stars coming back for them.

I don’t know what your numbers (52/50, 52/46) are in reference to.

50 hits 52 innings. 46 strikeouts in 52 innings. ERA 3.29 Not great. Not terrible. Average. I doubt we will get much for him at his age. I'm also now ready to throw in the towel on the 2025 season. We'll see what the next 9 days look like.

I don't know whose stats you think you're posting, but they aren't Maton's.

Edit:

Oh, so it was Matz's stats: he's 27% above league average by ERA+. He is considerably above average, mostly due to being well above average at limiting HRs and walks, two stats you just happened to leave out. Average ERA in MLB this season is 4.08, so 3.29 is significantly better than average.

AOF is correct, you don't know what average stats are.

Okay. He is above average. $12 million is more than above average salary for a 34 year old relief pitcher. I suppose if the goal is to get rid of the remaining $4 million on his contract trading him makes sense but it's unlikely we get much for him in exchange. Maton is would likely bring something in return although he also is in his walk year which is a major factor in a trade.

The only name I see floated who would bring something significant in return is Donovan but I don't know why anybody would trade him.

4 million is nothing to a contending team wanting to shore up either the back end of their rotation or their bullpen for the stretch run. 4 million is also nothing to the Cardinals if they want to maximize their return in a trade, as the remaining money on Matz's contract has to be paid if he isn't traded.

Since we appear to be collapsing I'd say Maton and Matz both could get traded if there is a contended who is looking for bullpen help. I'll be surprised if we get much in return.

Helsley, Contreras and Gray have very good trade value. Obviously, there is an NTC issue with Contreras and Gray. And Arenado, somehow, needs to be moved to establish more room for up and comers.

I haven't looked up who the closer is for every contending team but after Helsley's excellent year in 2024 my impression is he is a good pitcher I don't know that many contending teams would have him as their closer. Regarding the players with NTC that is the bind a team puts itself in when they sign those deals stretching beyond the prime years.