rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
Alright then. So if he hits like Edgar with his D then it’s something special. A cornerstone.
Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm
Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.
Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.
So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF
You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.
Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.
Do you purposely try to embarrass yourself in other parts of life?
No need to get personal. That's for low self esteem sorts. Do you not feel Burleson is a vert good defensive first baseman?
My apologies. No, he's not a very good first baseman. The internet has sites to verify this, and I know you can use the internet.
In short, he's 32nd in DRS and 28th in OAA among 1st basemen with over 100 ABs. That's not "very good."
And do you want to move Contreras off 1b?
"And do you want to move Contreras off 1b". To maximize the offense, yes. Contreras C, Burleson 1B and Herrera DH. Then get a productive outfielder on offense and defense. One with some pop. Sorry, we'll have to disagree on Burleson being a very good defensive first baseman.
Disagree? He just provided statistics proving his isn't good. He isn't even average. Stats aren't up for opinion
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Man. You make it tough on this old man. At the SS position, I need a sure thing. Winn is close. I keep him as what he will bring me won’t cover the hole at SS, even with JJ. I think he’s that good, will mature, and hit like Edgar. If this happened, would you keep him?
Winn's overrated here because the team lacks any star power BDog.
If he's your 6th/7th best player, then he's a keeper.
This is Winn since June 1st:
.232 .274 .316 .591
This is Dal Maxvill at his age:
.222 .287 .265 .552
Look familiar?
He'll NEVER (IMO) be as productive a hitter as Edgar, I think what we see ( .252 .305 .383 .688) is what we're going to get at the plate.
Okay, but definitely tradable.
If we could get back a quality young #2/3 starter, then I'd trade him if Bloom thinks JJW can handle SS.
This roster needs a big makeover, very few I wouldn't trade.
Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm
Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.
Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.
So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF
You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.
Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.
Do you purposely try to embarrass yourself in other parts of life?
No need to get personal. That's for low self esteem sorts. Do you not feel Burleson is a vert good defensive first baseman?
My apologies. No, he's not a very good first baseman. The internet has sites to verify this, and I know you can use the internet.
In short, he's 32nd in DRS and 28th in OAA among 1st basemen with over 100 ABs. That's not "very good."
And do you want to move Contreras off 1b?
"And do you want to move Contreras off 1b". To maximize the offense, yes. Contreras C, Burleson 1B and Herrera DH. Then get a productive outfielder on offense and defense. One with some pop. Sorry, we'll have to disagree on Burleson being a very good defensive first baseman.
Disagree? He just provided statistics proving his isn't good. He isn't even average. Stats aren't up for opinion
if you actually watch burleson at 1st, you'd see he's pretty solid there. he's actually not bad in the OF either.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Man. You make it tough on this old man. At the SS position, I need a sure thing. Winn is close. I keep him as what he will bring me won’t cover the hole at SS, even with JJ. I think he’s that good, will mature, and hit like Edgar. If this happened, would you keep him?
Winn's overrated here because the team lacks any star power BDog.
If he's your 6th/7th best player, then he's a keeper.
This is Winn since June 1st:
.232 .274 .316 .591
This is Dal Maxvill at his age:
.222 .287 .265 .552
Look familiar?
He'll NEVER (IMO) be as productive a hitter as Edgar, I think what we see ( .252 .305 .383 .688) is what we're going to get at the plate.
Okay, but definitely tradable.
If we could get back a quality young #2/3 starter, then I'd trade him if Bloom thinks JJW can handle SS.
This roster needs a big makeover, very few I wouldn't trade.
That OPS is still dragged down by 2023. He hasn’t had an OPS of .688 since then. He’s above it this year and was above it last year.
Also Renteria had 6 seasons with an OPS above .740 in his career…and 6 seasons with an OPS below .700 in his career. He had 5 seasons with an OPS+ above 100 in his entire career, 1 in his first 6 seasons. He wasn’t as good as you’re making him out to be. And Winn’s profile is certainly comparable offensively to Renteria.
Last edited by Futuregm2 on 17 Jul 2025 09:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm
Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.
Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.
So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF
You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.
Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.
Do you purposely try to embarrass yourself in other parts of life?
No need to get personal. That's for low self esteem sorts. Do you not feel Burleson is a vert good defensive first baseman?
My apologies. No, he's not a very good first baseman. The internet has sites to verify this, and I know you can use the internet.
In short, he's 32nd in DRS and 28th in OAA among 1st basemen with over 100 ABs. That's not "very good."
And do you want to move Contreras off 1b?
"And do you want to move Contreras off 1b". To maximize the offense, yes. Contreras C, Burleson 1B and Herrera DH. Then get a productive outfielder on offense and defense. One with some pop. Sorry, we'll have to disagree on Burleson being a very good defensive first baseman.
Disagree? He just provided statistics proving his isn't good. He isn't even average. Stats aren't up for opinion
The only opinion that actually matters has him in the lineup batting either 3 or 4 regularly. He's fine at 1B. Just like he is in RF. Maybe not a Gold Glover, but he's ok.
Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm
Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.
Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.
So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF
You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.
Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.
Do you purposely try to embarrass yourself in other parts of life?
No need to get personal. That's for low self esteem sorts. Do you not feel Burleson is a vert good defensive first baseman?
My apologies. No, he's not a very good first baseman. The internet has sites to verify this, and I know you can use the internet.
In short, he's 32nd in DRS and 28th in OAA among 1st basemen with over 100 ABs. That's not "very good."
And do you want to move Contreras off 1b?
"And do you want to move Contreras off 1b". To maximize the offense, yes. Contreras C, Burleson 1B and Herrera DH. Then get a productive outfielder on offense and defense. One with some pop. Sorry, we'll have to disagree on Burleson being a very good defensive first baseman.
Disagree? He just provided statistics proving his isn't good. He isn't even average. Stats aren't up for opinion
if you actually watch burleson at 1st, you'd see he's pretty solid there. he's actually not bad in the OF either.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Man. You make it tough on this old man. At the SS position, I need a sure thing. Winn is close. I keep him as what he will bring me won’t cover the hole at SS, even with JJ. I think he’s that good, will mature, and hit like Edgar. If this happened, would you keep him?
Winn's overrated here because the team lacks any star power BDog.
If he's your 6th/7th best player, then he's a keeper.
This is Winn since June 1st:
.232 .274 .316 .591
This is Dal Maxvill at his age:
.222 .287 .265 .552
Look familiar?
He'll NEVER (IMO) be as productive a hitter as Edgar, I think what we see ( .252 .305 .383 .688) is what we're going to get at the plate.
Okay, but definitely tradable.
If we could get back a quality young #2/3 starter, then I'd trade him if Bloom thinks JJW can handle SS.
This roster needs a big makeover, very few I wouldn't trade.
That OPS is still dragged down by 2023. He hasn’t had an OPS of .688 since then. He’s above it this year and was above it last year.
Also Renteria had 6 seasons with an OPS above .740 in his career…and 6 seasons with an OPS below .700 in his career. He had 5 seasons with an OPS+ above 100 in his entire career, 1 in his first 6 seasons. He wasn’t as good as you’re making him out to be. And Winn’s profile is certainly comparable offensively to Renteria.
You can say the same about Edgars age 20/21 seasons too.
Edgar also had thee seasons w/an OPS above .800, something Winn could do but doubtful w/his weak OB%.
I'm NOT trying to make Edgar out to be anything, just (IMO) a superior player to Winn at the plate, in the field and on the basepaths.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
Edgar was a superior player both at the plate, in the field and on the basepaths.
JMO
You’re comparing his PRIME years. Winn is still just 23 years old. Renteria didn’t become the Renteria you’re thinking of until 25 years old. And even then he was inconsistent. He was bad in his age 24 season (.685 OPS), he was bad in his age 27 and 28 seasons when he had a .728 OPS (88 OPS+) and .721 OPS (89 OPS+), and he was bad after 30. He basically had 5 good years his whole career. And again you have to remember the time that he played in, which is why I use OPS+. Comparatively, Winn has been similar to Renteria.
Renteria’ first 6 years: .716 OPS/85 OPS+
Renteria’s last 8 years: .733 OPS/92 OPS+
He had a great 2 year stretch in 2002-03 and 2006-07. Other than that, he’s no more different than Winn right now.
And right now Winn has the best fWAR on the Cardinals at 2.6. Renteria had 1 season with a better fWAR than that in his first 6 years and this will be Winn’s 2nd season like that.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
Edgar was a superior player both at the plate, in the field and on the basepaths.
JMO
You’re comparing his PRIME years. Winn is still just 23 years old. Renteria didn’t become the Renteria you’re thinking of until 25 years old. And even then he was inconsistent. He was bad in his age 24 season (.685 OPS), he was bad in his age 27 and 28 seasons when he had a .728 OPS (88 OPS+) and .721 OPS (89 OPS+), and he was bad after 30. He basically had 5 good years his whole career. And again you have to remember the time that he played in, which is why I use OPS+. Comparatively, Winn has been similar to Renteria.
Renteria’ first 6 years: .716 OPS/85 OPS+
Renteria’s last 8 years: .733 OPS/92 OPS+
He had a great 2 year stretch in 2002-03 and 2006-07. Other than that, he’s no more different than Winn right now.
And right now Winn has the best fWAR on the Cardinals at 2.6. Renteria had 1 season with a better fWAR than that in his first 6 years and this will be Winn’s 2nd season like that.
[/quote
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm
In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
I deal any and all. None are untouchable
I can see your point scouty.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
