Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
In 1982 Rickey stole 130 bases, despite only playing in 149 games and having 656 PAs. Two years prior he stole 100 bases in 158 games, and 722 PAs. I think with 10-13 more games Rickey probably gets 8-10 more SBs in 1982. Granted he's the best base runner in history and he would have needed everything to go just right for him to do it, but it shows that 95 years later a player came very close to that record.
100+ years later we're getting farther and farther from Cy Young and Walter Johnson's pitching records.
I think you're right rbi.
I never said it's the most unbreakable.
I insinuated it's one of the most unbreakable.
I didn't realize someone in 1887 held the record.
I though Henderson held the record, until
I looked it up this morning.
I was surprised to see VS only had 24 SB.
Thought he'd have more.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
In 1982 Rickey stole 130 bases, despite only playing in 149 games and having 656 PAs. Two years prior he stole 100 bases in 158 games, and 722 PAs. I think with 10-13 more games Rickey probably gets 8-10 more SBs in 1982. Granted he's the best base runner in history and he would have needed everything to go just right for him to do it, but it shows that 95 years later a player came very close to that record.
100+ years later we're getting farther and farther from Cy Young and Walter Johnson's pitching records.
I think you're right rbi.
I never said it's the most unbreakable.
I insinuated it's one of the most unbreakable.
I didn't realize someone in 1887 held the record.
I though Henderson held the record, until
I looked it up this morning.
I was surprised to see VS only had 24 SB.
Thought he'd have more.
I'm not looking to get into a semantics argument this early in the morning. Thanks for sharing, it's fascinating, but like I said, Rickey almost did it 95 years later, but nobody is getting close to a number of pitching records.
I'd probably put Rickey's career SB record as "more untouchable" than the single season record.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
Edit: The remarkable thing (well maybe not that remarkable considering the era, but crazy looking at it through the lens of modern baseball), Nicol stole 138 bases in 125 games, and further more he had 99 hits that weren't a HR or triple, but had a remarkable 86 walks. He hit .215 but got on base at a .341 clip to steal 138 bases in 185 opportunities!
That same year, 1887, Arlie Latham stole 129 bases, in 677 PAs over 100 more than Nicol (his 627 ABs dwarfed Nicol's 475). Charlie Comiskey stole 117 and Pete Browning stole 103.
How do you find that information?
That's crazy.
It's a remarkable achievement.
Just don't tell JDW that.
Why don't we see SB like we did in the 1980's?
I mean what happened?
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
In 1982 Rickey stole 130 bases, despite only playing in 149 games and having 656 PAs. Two years prior he stole 100 bases in 158 games, and 722 PAs. I think with 10-13 more games Rickey probably gets 8-10 more SBs in 1982. Granted he's the best base runner in history and he would have needed everything to go just right for him to do it, but it shows that 95 years later a player came very close to that record.
100+ years later we're getting farther and farther from Cy Young and Walter Johnson's pitching records.
I think you're right rbi.
I never said it's the most unbreakable.
I insinuated it's one of the most unbreakable.
I didn't realize someone in 1887 held the record.
I though Henderson held the record, until
I looked it up this morning.
I was surprised to see VS only had 24 SB.
Thought he'd have more.
I'm not looking to get into a semantics argument this early in the morning. Thanks for sharing, it's fascinating, but like I said, Rickey almost did it 95 years later, but nobody is getting close to a number of pitching records.
I'd probably put Rickey's career SB record as "more untouchable" than the single season record.
If someone steals 138 bases in our lifetimes,
I'm buying you a beer.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
I'm a bit disappointed in VS II
He only has 23 stolen bases.
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
More so than the single season HR record which was
broken multiple times.
This is a record that steroid users won't even touch.
Take as many steroids as you like, never gonna get 138.
Makes me appreciate Vincent Coleman even more.
Wow, I thought Scott would be better.
First Henderson was close with a 130. Second the rules have changed so I'd view Henderson 130 as the actual steal record. The below was AI generated so.....
the rules regarding stolen bases in MLB have changed significantly since 1886. Initially, a stolen base was awarded any time a runner advanced an extra base, even on a hit or an out. The modern rule, where a stolen base is credited when a runner advances a base on the pitcher without the aid of a hit, an error, a wild pitch, or a passed ball, wasn't fully in place until 1898.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
In 1982 Rickey stole 130 bases, despite only playing in 149 games and having 656 PAs. Two years prior he stole 100 bases in 158 games, and 722 PAs. I think with 10-13 more games Rickey probably gets 8-10 more SBs in 1982. Granted he's the best base runner in history and he would have needed everything to go just right for him to do it, but it shows that 95 years later a player came very close to that record.
100+ years later we're getting farther and farther from Cy Young and Walter Johnson's pitching records.
Edit: The remarkable thing (well maybe not that remarkable considering the era, but crazy looking at it through the lens of modern baseball), Nicol stole 138 bases in 125 games, and further more he had 99 hits that weren't a HR or triple, but had a remarkable 86 walks. He hit .215 but got on base at a .341 clip to steal 138 bases in 185 opportunities!
That same year, 1887, Arlie Latham stole 129 bases, in 677 PAs over 100 more than Nicol (his 627 ABs dwarfed Nicol's 475). Charlie Comiskey stole 117 and Pete Browning stole 103.
1887 is an odd year in baseball history. Some of the statistics we read about are amazing, but 1887 is a year that completely should be omitted from the record books. Walks in 1887 counted as hits, if you advance on a passed ball it was a stolen base and if you went a extra base it also counted as a SB. For example going 1st to 3rd on a single would credit you a SB. This explains the variance in stolen bases versus other years.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
Edit: The remarkable thing (well maybe not that remarkable considering the era, but crazy looking at it through the lens of modern baseball), Nicol stole 138 bases in 125 games, and further more he had 99 hits that weren't a HR or triple, but had a remarkable 86 walks. He hit .215 but got on base at a .341 clip to steal 138 bases in 185 opportunities!
That same year, 1887, Arlie Latham stole 129 bases, in 677 PAs over 100 more than Nicol (his 627 ABs dwarfed Nicol's 475). Charlie Comiskey stole 117 and Pete Browning stole 103.
How do you find that information?
That's crazy.
It's a remarkable achievement.
Just don't tell JDW that.
Why don't we see SB like we did in the 1980's?
I mean what happened?
I clicked on Nicol's name and looked at his stats for the 1887 season.
The game goes in waves. We might never see SBs like we did in the 1980s ever again, because stealing bases isn't the most efficient way to score (very risky if you get thrown out), unless hitting for power becomes a lot more difficult.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
I'm a bit disappointed in VS II
He only has 23 stolen bases.
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
More so than the single season HR record which was
broken multiple times.
This is a record that steroid users won't even touch.
Take as many steroids as you like, never gonna get 138.
Makes me appreciate Vincent Coleman even more.
Wow, I thought Scott would be better.
the rules regarding stolen bases in MLB have changed significantly since 1886. Initially, a stolen base was awarded any time a runner advanced an extra base, even on a hit or an out. The modern rule, where a stolen base is credited when a runner advances a base on the pitcher without the aid of a hit, an error, a wild pitch, or a passed ball, wasn't fully in place until 1898.
Hmm.
That's interesting.
Then, the 138 is essentially a different stat.
Okay.
That unexpected.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
In 1982 Rickey stole 130 bases, despite only playing in 149 games and having 656 PAs. Two years prior he stole 100 bases in 158 games, and 722 PAs. I think with 10-13 more games Rickey probably gets 8-10 more SBs in 1982. Granted he's the best base runner in history and he would have needed everything to go just right for him to do it, but it shows that 95 years later a player came very close to that record.
100+ years later we're getting farther and farther from Cy Young and Walter Johnson's pitching records.
I think you're right rbi.
I never said it's the most unbreakable.
I insinuated it's one of the most unbreakable.
I didn't realize someone in 1887 held the record.
I though Henderson held the record, until
I looked it up this morning.
I was surprised to see VS only had 24 SB.
Thought he'd have more.
I'm not looking to get into a semantics argument this early in the morning. Thanks for sharing, it's fascinating, but like I said, Rickey almost did it 95 years later, but nobody is getting close to a number of pitching records.
I'd probably put Rickey's career SB record as "more untouchable" than the single season record.
If someone steals 138 bases in our lifetimes,
I'm buying you a beer.
Sounds good to me. Somebody has only stolen 100+ bases a few times in my lifetime, and none of them have been in the last 35 years. If Coleman was an OBP machine like Rickey (OBPs in the .400+ range several times) he probably would have given it a real scare in '85 or '87.
There's a reason that "record" (not MLB, it was the American Association then) is still standing, but there's a least a path to it being broken (guy with a .400+ OBP and blazing speed, probably on a team that doesn't care if he runs into some outs). There's no path to some of those pitching records being broken.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 08:22 am
Most unbreakable is Connie Mack - real name Cornelius Mcgillicuddy - 3,731 wins. LaRussa is 847 wins behind Mack. With LaRussa's career .536 winning percentage he would have to manage another 1,580 games to tie Mack.
Mack owned the Athletics and despite some really bad seasons he never fired himself.
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
In 1982 Rickey stole 130 bases, despite only playing in 149 games and having 656 PAs. Two years prior he stole 100 bases in 158 games, and 722 PAs. I think with 10-13 more games Rickey probably gets 8-10 more SBs in 1982. Granted he's the best base runner in history and he would have needed everything to go just right for him to do it, but it shows that 95 years later a player came very close to that record.
100+ years later we're getting farther and farther from Cy Young and Walter Johnson's pitching records.
I think you're right rbi.
I never said it's the most unbreakable.
I insinuated it's one of the most unbreakable.
I didn't realize someone in 1887 held the record.
I though Henderson held the record, until
I looked it up this morning.
I was surprised to see VS only had 24 SB.
Thought he'd have more.
I'm not looking to get into a semantics argument this early in the morning. Thanks for sharing, it's fascinating, but like I said, Rickey almost did it 95 years later, but nobody is getting close to a number of pitching records.
I'd probably put Rickey's career SB record as "more untouchable" than the single season record.
If someone steals 138 bases in our lifetimes,
I'm buying you a beer.
Sounds good to me. Somebody has only stolen 100+ bases a few times in my lifetime, and none of them have been in the last 35 years. If Coleman was an OBP machine like Rickey (OBPs in the .400+ range several times) he probably would have given it a real scare in '85 or '87.
There's a reason that "record" (not MLB, it was the American Association then) is still standing, but there's a least a path to it being broken (guy with a .400+ OBP and blazing speed, probably on a team that doesn't care if he runs into some outs). There's no path to some of those pitching records being broken.
That's true.
The use of the bullpen cemented those
pitching records for good.
If VS can up his OBP in the next few years
while he's still speedy and if he can take a beating,
without getting injured, then he's got a shot.
That's a lot of ifs though.
rbirules wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 08:27 am
With the way pitchers are used now take your pick of records held by Cy Young that nobody will get close to (starting now nobody will likely get even to 50% of these marks) . . .
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
I'm a bit disappointed in VS II
He only has 23 stolen bases.
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
More so than the single season HR record which was
broken multiple times.
This is a record that steroid users won't even touch.
Take as many steroids as you like, never gonna get 138.
Makes me appreciate Vincent Coleman even more.
Wow, I thought Scott would be better.
First Henderson was close with a 130. Second the rules have changed so I'd view Henderson 130 as the actual steal record. The below was AI generated so.....
the rules regarding stolen bases in MLB have changed significantly since 1886. Initially, a stolen base was awarded any time a runner advanced an extra base, even on a hit or an out. The modern rule, where a stolen base is credited when a runner advances a base on the pitcher without the aid of a hit, an error, a wild pitch, or a passed ball, wasn't fully in place until 1898.
That’s why Henderson holds the record regardless of what Bully claims.
rbirules wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 08:27 am
With the way pitchers are used now take your pick of records held by Cy Young that nobody will get close to (starting now nobody will likely get even to 50% of these marks) . . .
Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:14 am
I'm a bit disappointed in VS II
He only has 23 stolen bases.
The record is an amazing 138 in 1887 by Hugh Nicol.
Not even the late great Rickey Henderson could touch that.
Appears to be an untouchable record.
More so than the single season HR record which was
broken multiple times.
This is a record that steroid users won't even touch.
Take as many steroids as you like, never gonna get 138.
Makes me appreciate Vincent Coleman even more.
Wow, I thought Scott would be better.
First Henderson was close with a 130. Second the rules have changed so I'd view Henderson 130 as the actual steal record. The below was AI generated so.....
the rules regarding stolen bases in MLB have changed significantly since 1886. Initially, a stolen base was awarded any time a runner advanced an extra base, even on a hit or an out. The modern rule, where a stolen base is credited when a runner advances a base on the pitcher without the aid of a hit, an error, a wild pitch, or a passed ball, wasn't fully in place until 1898.
That’s why Henderson holds the record regardless of what Bully claims.
rbirules wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 08:27 am
With the way pitchers are used now take your pick of records held by Cy Young that nobody will get close to (starting now nobody will likely get even to 50% of these marks) . . .
