24 months ago we SOLD - where has that gotten us so far?

[CorneliusWolfe]

Are you suggesting it would have been better to keep Montgomery, Flaherty, Hicks, DeJong and others?

I think he’s saying we didn’t get jack-[shirt] in return and thinks we’ll get more of the same in another sell-off.

And trade targets should be MLB roster players with control unless there a select few prospects they’ve scouted and coveted. Not just best value prospect return trades. Didn’t work before.

The same posters that think Mo is so incompetent are the same ones assuming he’s going to get some kind of big haul by selling off.

[Carp4Cy]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

What of it? If we had non-tendered these guys (or giving Monty a QO and taken the draft pick) we wouldn't be in a materially different position now.

Like I said in the OP - we didn't have a choice but it also didn't help us. We need to be looking for an entirely different strategy to improve this team.

I think it’s a little early to say that we didn’t get materially better. Saggese has barely had any time in the big leagues (heck he went 3 for 8 over the weekend against the Cubs with a double and 2 RBI) and Tekoah Roby is in AAA on the cusp of the MLB. So those two pieces alone could (and probably will) determine the path that deadline takes us. And that’s also because they were the return in the biggest name we dealt.

And for your last sentence, I’d say hiring Bloom, bringing in Cerfolio and others is the way they are doing just that. But it won’t happen overnight, but I think it is changing.

I guess they could still surprise, but I just don't see even Sagesse or Roby becoming the studs you build a winning franchise around. Maybe they contribute but there are tons of ways to get decent roster filler and scrappy utility guys. We've done a good job of drafting the Donovan/Edman/Knizner/Lane Thomas types in the middle draft rounds already. Even Matt Carpenter was a 13th rounder.
Its not whether the trade was bad or good, just that these types of trades never get you "enough" to become a a juggernaut. Nobody is trading you a Gunner Henderson or Bobby Witt level prospect for a rental. So whether we "sell" this month or don't, isn't a "mortgage our future" kind of decision.

If we do sell - it could kill off the rest of 2025, sell less tickets for 2026 and put us in worse financial position. And gain us an expected value of small-needle-movement players with a long development timeline.

If we don't sell and just hold - we might win a WC slot and we might win a series or two and sell more tickets for 2026, which helps the projections heading into FA markets offseason. Or we might tank due to further unforseen injuries, just get unlucky and miss the playoffs. BDW is out a few more $ but not a big deal. And we miss some prospects who weren't needle movers to begin with.

Or we move some guys for some other guys that we actually need. This his how the trade market used to be used - household names for household names. Vets for Vets. dollars for dollars. Done right this has maybe the best chance of upgrading our chances this year of winning a WC or better, and winning some playoff games, and maybe even land us someone we want to extend, like a Eugenio Suarez, who can be a MOTO bat we need in 2026 and beyond. I like a smartly aggressive approach where we don't simply go all in on 2025 alone, but try to improve for both Now and the near future as opposed to punting on 2025 and maybe not improving as much as we hope for 2026/2027, or just running scared from the table and not making any trades at all.

[Ozziesfan41]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

What would you expect to get in return for mediocre players at the deadline who are about to be free agents? If they sell at the deadline this season it will be about the same return because it will be free agents at the deadline. Thats why they should have traded helsely and Fedde in the off season when they were at their highest value

[Absolut]

Cheap tickets

[Strummer Jones]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

What of it? If we had non-tendered these guys (or giving Monty a QO and taken the draft pick) we wouldn't be in a materially different position now.

Like I said in the OP - we didn't have a choice but it also didn't help us. We need to be looking for an entirely different strategy to improve this team.

I think it’s a little early to say that we didn’t get materially better. Saggese has barely had any time in the big leagues (heck he went 3 for 8 over the weekend against the Cubs with a double and 2 RBI) and Tekoah Roby is in AAA on the cusp of the MLB. So those two pieces alone could (and probably will) determine the path that deadline takes us. And that’s also because they were the return in the biggest name we dealt.

And for your last sentence, I’d say hiring Bloom, bringing in Cerfolio and others is the way they are doing just that. But it won’t happen overnight, but I think it is changing.

I guess they could still surprise, but I just don't see even Sagesse or Roby becoming the studs you build a winning franchise around. Maybe they contribute but there are tons of ways to get decent roster filler and scrappy utility guys. We've done a good job of drafting the Donovan/Edman/Knizner/Lane Thomas types in the middle draft rounds already. Even Matt Carpenter was a 13th rounder.
Its not whether the trade was bad or good, just that these types of trades never get you "enough" to become a a juggernaut. Nobody is trading you a Gunner Henderson or Bobby Witt level prospect for a rental. So whether we "sell" this month or don't, isn't a "mortgage our future" kind of decision.

If we do sell - it could kill off the rest of 2025, sell less tickets for 2026 and put us in worse financial position. And gain us an expected value of small-needle-movement players with a long development timeline.

If we don't sell and just hold - we might win a WC slot and we might win a series or two and sell more tickets for 2026, which helps the projections heading into FA markets offseason. Or we might tank due to further unforseen injuries, just get unlucky and miss the playoffs. BDW is out a few more $ but not a big deal. And we miss some prospects who weren't needle movers to begin with.

Or we move some guys for some other guys that we actually need. This his how the trade market used to be used - household names for household names. Vets for Vets. dollars for dollars. Done right this has maybe the best chance of upgrading our chances this year of winning a WC or better, and winning some playoff games, and maybe even land us someone we want to extend, like a Eugenio Suarez, who can be a MOTO bat we need in 2026 and beyond. I like a smartly aggressive approach where we don't simply go all in on 2025 alone, but try to improve for both Now and the near future as opposed to punting on 2025 and maybe not improving as much as we hope for 2026/2027, or just running scared from the table and not making any trades at all.

I will never not wonder what we might've been able to come away with if we didn't target multiple guys with one trade and instead focused on one. Saggese will probably be a decent player, and I figure Roby could be a nice #3 or late inning arm, but it really feels like we just stocked the high minors with AAAA guys in those trades. I guess Svanson has been pretty alright in limited duty.

[BrockFloodMaris]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

What of it? If we had non-tendered these guys (or giving Monty a QO and taken the draft pick) we wouldn't be in a materially different position now.

Like I said in the OP - we didn't have a choice but it also didn't help us. We need to be looking for an entirely different strategy to improve this team.

I think it’s a little early to say that we didn’t get materially better. Saggese has barely had any time in the big leagues (heck he went 3 for 8 over the weekend against the Cubs with a double and 2 RBI) and Tekoah Roby is in AAA on the cusp of the MLB. So those two pieces alone could (and probably will) determine the path that deadline takes us. And that’s also because they were the return in the biggest name we dealt.

And for your last sentence, I’d say hiring Bloom, bringing in Cerfolio and others is the way they are doing just that. But it won’t happen overnight, but I think it is changing.

I guess they could still surprise, but I just don't see even Sagesse or Roby becoming the studs you build a winning franchise around. Maybe they contribute but there are tons of ways to get decent roster filler and scrappy utility guys. We've done a good job of drafting the Donovan/Edman/Knizner/Lane Thomas types in the middle draft rounds already. Even Matt Carpenter was a 13th rounder.
Its not whether the trade was bad or good, just that these types of trades never get you "enough" to become a a juggernaut. Nobody is trading you a Gunner Henderson or Bobby Witt level prospect for a rental. So whether we "sell" this month or don't, isn't a "mortgage our future" kind of decision.

If we do sell - it could kill off the rest of 2025, sell less tickets for 2026 and put us in worse financial position. And gain us an expected value of small-needle-movement players with a long development timeline.

If we don't sell and just hold - we might win a WC slot and we might win a series or two and sell more tickets for 2026, which helps the projections heading into FA markets offseason. Or we might tank due to further unforseen injuries, just get unlucky and miss the playoffs. BDW is out a few more $ but not a big deal. And we miss some prospects who weren't needle movers to begin with.

Or we move some guys for some other guys that we actually need. This his how the trade market used to be used - household names for household names. Vets for Vets. dollars for dollars. Done right this has maybe the best chance of upgrading our chances this year of winning a WC or better, and winning some playoff games, and maybe even land us someone we want to extend, like a Eugenio Suarez, who can be a MOTO bat we need in 2026 and beyond. I like a smartly aggressive approach where we don't simply go all in on 2025 alone, but try to improve for both Now and the near future as opposed to punting on 2025 and maybe not improving as much as we hope for 2026/2027, or just running scared from the table and not making any trades at all.

You make some good points, Carp. A few conclusions I drew from reading your post:

1) Draft and develop is the best path forward for a mid-market team that wants to compete with the big spenders.
2) With BDW's aversion to eating contracts, and his apparent desire to see what Bloom can do with a $125M-$140M MLB payroll, this trade deadline will likely not return much in the way of value.
3) This reset, rebuild, redo, reno, rework is going to take some time--2-3 years until we see enough top prospects reach MLB to make a substantive difference to compete in the post season.

[45s]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

What of it? If we had non-tendered these guys (or giving Monty a QO and taken the draft pick) we wouldn't be in a materially different position now.

Like I said in the OP - we didn't have a choice but it also didn't help us. We need to be looking for an entirely different strategy to improve this team.

I think it’s a little early to say that we didn’t get materially better. Saggese has barely had any time in the big leagues (heck he went 3 for 8 over the weekend against the Cubs with a double and 2 RBI) and Tekoah Roby is in AAA on the cusp of the MLB. So those two pieces alone could (and probably will) determine the path that deadline takes us. And that’s also because they were the return in the biggest name we dealt.

And for your last sentence, I’d say hiring Bloom, bringing in Cerfolio and others is the way they are doing just that. But it won’t happen overnight, but I think it is changing.

I guess they could still surprise, but I just don't see even Sagesse or Roby becoming the studs you build a winning franchise around. Maybe they contribute but there are tons of ways to get decent roster filler and scrappy utility guys. We've done a good job of drafting the Donovan/Edman/Knizner/Lane Thomas types in the middle draft rounds already. Even Matt Carpenter was a 13th rounder.
Its not whether the trade was bad or good, just that these types of trades never get you "enough" to become a a juggernaut. Nobody is trading you a Gunner Henderson or Bobby Witt level prospect for a rental. So whether we "sell" this month or don't, isn't a "mortgage our future" kind of decision.

If we do sell - it could kill off the rest of 2025, sell less tickets for 2026 and put us in worse financial position. And gain us an expected value of small-needle-movement players with a long development timeline.

If we don't sell and just hold - we might win a WC slot and we might win a series or two and sell more tickets for 2026, which helps the projections heading into FA markets offseason. Or we might tank due to further unforseen injuries, just get unlucky and miss the playoffs. BDW is out a few more $ but not a big deal. And we miss some prospects who weren't needle movers to begin with.

Or we move some guys for some other guys that we actually need. This his how the trade market used to be used - household names for household names. Vets for Vets. dollars for dollars. Done right this has maybe the best chance of upgrading our chances this year of winning a WC or better, and winning some playoff games, and maybe even land us someone we want to extend, like a Eugenio Suarez, who can be a MOTO bat we need in 2026 and beyond. I like a smartly aggressive approach where we don't simply go all in on 2025 alone, but try to improve for both Now and the near future as opposed to punting on 2025 and maybe not improving as much as we hope for 2026/2027, or just running scared from the table and not making any trades at all.

Suarez is a nice player…..but giving up quality…(such as it is)…..on the possibility of extending him is very risky

He will have many suitors……

[imadangman]

Well they only were half-senders with the selling that year. You want to talk about the value Goldschmidt or Arenado(with a .836 ops on July 31) would've had?

[Carp4Cy]

Well they only were half-senders with the selling that year. You want to talk about the value Goldschmidt or Arenado(with a .836 ops on July 31) would've had?

I'm not buying it. We gave up nobody that we've missed to get Nado, and he's 4 years older now. Better to keep playing him at 3b and get what we can out of him. His 2.5-3 WAR still looks a lot better there than Gorman or Sagesse. He's had several game winners either with the bat or the glove.

[ClassicO]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

I’m sure you could add Carlson who went for Armstrong (who has done better than DC).
O’Neill has done better than the two lousy arms received, but he’s hardly done well overall.
In any case, your point is valid that it’s hard to get a lot of return when you’re trading commodities are low in value and depreciating.

[Frontierman]

It’s way too soon to say anything good or bad about those trades in 2023 other than to acknowledge that we didn’t actually give up anything so we are no worse off now and still have the potential to be better off for making those trades. At minimum those trades did seem to accomplish their goals of adding much needed organizational depth though.

In 2023 we had multiple guys graduating to the majors that we expected to be very good if not star level players (Walker, Gorman, Winn, etc) and once they were in St. Louis our farm was pretty devoid of any notable talent. Here’s the 2024 team prospect rankings of guys we got at the 2023 trade deadline.

3- Roby
5- Saggese
13- Robberse
17- Kloffenstein
18- Showalter
19- Prieto
29- Rom
NR- Svanson

You might be thinking to yourself “those are mostly AAAA level guys” and you’d be correct but as an organization we’ve always been at our best when we’ve had a steady supply of those guys we could rely on (or use as trade bait) in a pinch.

[Talkin' Baseball]

It’s way too soon to say anything good or bad about those trades in 2023 other than to acknowledge that we didn’t actually give up anything so we are no worse off now and still have the potential to be better off for making those trades. At minimum those trades did seem to accomplish their goals of adding much needed organizational depth though.

In 2023 we had multiple guys graduating to the majors that we expected to be very good if not star level players (Walker, Gorman, Winn, etc) and once they were in St. Louis our farm was pretty devoid of any notable talent. Here’s the 2024 team prospect rankings of guys we got at the 2023 trade deadline.

3- Roby
5- Saggese
13- Robberse
17- Kloffenstein
18- Showalter
19- Prieto
29- Rom
NR- Svanson

You might be thinking to yourself “those are mostly AAAA level guys” and you’d be correct but as an organization we’ve always been at our best when we’ve had a steady supply of those guys we could rely on (or use as trade bait) in a pinch.

There will be fewer hits than misses from that list. Whatever we get from the "hits" will be more valuable than the 60 games we would have gotten from the players we traded in a lost season. To get something more high level than this list the player being traded has to be more valuable, or some players with team control need to be included. This year will be no different. If we just trade free agents- to-be the incoming list will be of this caliber.

[Cusecards]

It’s way too soon to say anything good or bad about those trades in 2023 other than to acknowledge that we didn’t actually give up anything so we are no worse off now and still have the potential to be better off for making those trades. At minimum those trades did seem to accomplish their goals of adding much needed organizational depth though.

In 2023 we had multiple guys graduating to the majors that we expected to be very good if not star level players (Walker, Gorman, Winn, etc) and once they were in St. Louis our farm was pretty devoid of any notable talent. Here’s the 2024 team prospect rankings of guys we got at the 2023 trade deadline.

3- Roby
5- Saggese
13- Robberse
17- Kloffenstein
18- Showalter
19- Prieto
29- Rom
NR- Svanson

You might be thinking to yourself “those are mostly AAAA level guys” and you’d be correct but as an organization we’ve always been at our best when we’ve had a steady supply of those guys we could rely on (or use as trade bait) in a pinch.

Agree
Way too soon to evaluate deals.
Bottom line....they moved on from pending FA’s that didn’t make sense for them to keep.
When you do that you usually target prospects.
That is what they did.
Of that list only Saggese has seen time in the show.
Too early to tell on him either. Looks like he might at least make a decent utility guy.
Roby was hurt now is making some noise.
Again....way too soon and nobody they gave up is exactly burning it up.

[ICCFIM2]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

I think MO did pretty good in the 2023 sell-off. Roby might turn into a SP we have for 6 years. Saggese is probably just a guy like you say, but, he could be a decent utility player. Svanson looks like a decent bullpen arm. The rest may not play any major league games. But, we got potentially a rotation piece for years to come, a bullpen piece for years to come and a utility player for guys we were going to lose at 0 return. That is really good.

If we sell this year, clearly Fedde, King, Mikolas have zero value. So I expect nothing in return. Helsley I would expect to get a decent prospect for, likely a bullpen prospect that could help us in 2026 and maybe another guy. Maton could probably also get us something similar.

If they want to sell and contend, the Dodgers apparently are willing to part with Dustin May for a 3B. It would be an almost certainty that Arenado would accept a trade there. May has been just OK this year and only has control through the end of 2025. If the Dodgers are willing to take on all the salary, May has to be better than either of Fedde or Mikolas. DFA both of them, the salary savings from Arenado easily covers those salaries. Then see if Gorman is OK at 3B. If not, Wetherholdt will be here next year. They have then freed up $50M+ to get a TOR SP in 2026. If May is OK, they can try to extend him at some reasonable price. Just make Helsley a QO. If the Dodgers are willing to do that deal, that is what I would do.

[zuck698]

We were in last place, so I'm not saying there was a better choice, but honestly, I'm underwhelmed at the return. Sagesse is a 0 WAR player, with awful defense at 3b. John King is a JAG. Rom was a disaster. A few people are excited about this guy or that guy but what if they disappoint as well once (if) they make the show? Its a long road but its been 2 years already.

All that to say - we aren't going to turn into a pennant winner by dumping AS or former AS talent for whatever filler the other GM is willing to let go of. We get better thru targeted trades for either existing players or possibly prospects we've vetted, and thru drafting and FA and Intl FA markets. And yes spending $ wisely but not pinching pennies.

As far as the trade deadline goes - seems like anyone we trade away needs to be for existing MLB players in order to make this a better team. Dumping roster talent for no-name prospects isn't going to move the needle now or probably even way into the future.

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

Genesis Cabrera

[RichieRichSTL]

The goods we sold were are currently

Flaherty- 5-9 4.84 ERA 0.1 bWAR
Montgomery- Out for year, and was horrible last year. We basically sold at his peak.
Stratton- 7.71 ERA -0.5 bWAR
PDJ- .592 OPS 0.2 bWAR
Hicks- 1-5 6.49 ERA -1.1 bWAR

Am I forgetting anyone?

I've said it before, but it appears that Matt was right and we should have sold harder in 2023, because it's very likely that trading Arenado and/or Goldschmidt that year would have netted us some much higher tier prospects than what we got from those players you listed. Probably a major league ready prospect plus a highly ranked prospect each.

But we went for the middle ground. And that appears what we're trying to do again this year. We may sell, but we're not getting much for an Arenado, Fedde, or Helsley now. We may buy, but we aren't trading Wetherholt, Mathews, or any other highly ranked prospect because it would decimate our thin farm system, so we're not getting any high level players back. We're probably just going to ride it out again and end up in the same position last year as we were this year.

But we went for the middle ground

That in a nutshell is why they have not been a real contender for years.
- Mo keeps players when their value is high rather than to sell high and doesnt build a contender around them. In other words, he wastes their prime years.
- Other players have a peak year. He doesnt sell at the peak, he keeps them around, hoping for continued value. Once again not surrounded by enough talent to contend. So, their value again is wasted. And if the regress, they have little value left.

We saw this with Ozuna he picked him up in a win-now move, but refused to surround him with enough takent to contend. Not only did he set back the starting staff for years, but it was for no good reason. Once he was looking for the middle ground - enough talent to win if everything fell just right without paying a premium.