Montreal Writers Weigh In: Mulling the Mailloux Move

[DawgDad]

If LM becomes a TOP4 defenseman, STL WON the trade. If LM does not become a TOP4 defenseman, STL definitely LOST the trade. Bolduc was very valuable prospect trade bait, and if LM does not result in something special, Armstrong traded Bolduc for the wrong guy.

Second, at the outset, the trade was a mismatch.

Yes, both teams traded their "surplus", but look closer.

Montreal traded away the weakest of their prospect RHD, and the guy with personal baggage.

St Louis traded away their strongest of their prospect Wingers, and the guy with known ultra-toughness.

As it stands now, Montreal won the trade. However, if LM becomes TOP4, then STL won the trade.

Your logic is "ill".

First, both GMs got what they wanted or they would not have made the trade.

Second, let's say Mailloux somehow does not crack the top-4. Then it kind of depends on what Bolduc amounts to. You cannot assume they could have traded Bolduc for some other player of greater value. Also, future value is established in the FUTURE, it is only projection at this juncture. One or both of these players could go down lame in training camp.

The "strongest" of the Blues prospect wingers was likely viewed to be Snuggerud. He is still a prospect.

Nobody right now "won" this trade, all evaluations end in projection and speculation. Again, each GM got what they wanted.

[theograce]

Don’t get me wrong, I really liked Bolduc. But yes, both Dvorsky and Snuggerud project to be better.

I thought I saw some fear in Snuggarud in the playoffs. Need a bigger sample, but he’s going to need be able to stick up for himself/stand his ground better than what I saw.

[SameOldBlues]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

[skilles]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

[somni]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

So with that premise, the Blues lost the Shanahan/Pronger trade? And the Brett Hull for Ramage and Wamsley?

[TAFKAP]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

I'm not really worried about it. it's not like trading Brendan Shanahan for Chris Pronger. That ABSOLUTELY looked like a [fustercluck] until Gretzky got here and fans started to ignore Pronger's learning curve. He was HORRIBLE the first year. Fans hated him and let him know it, a point he mentioned in his number retirement. I hope fans give LM a break.

[Barksdale's People]

It’s odd that anyone here would think they know the market value of ZB or LM within NHL circles. The Blues got the lesser of the two in terms of NHL experience, that is about as far as I or anyone here can take that conversation.

And no, quoting John Q. Twitter or Jane Q Podcast doesn’t count as a source for market value either.

[Sudsy 11]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

So with that premise, the Blues lost the Shanahan/Pronger trade? And the Brett Hull for Ramage and Wamsley?

On my Blues calendar hanging in my dorm room at Eastern Illinois University, I wrote "A day that will live in infamy" on the date the Blues traded for Brett Hull. Guess i got that one wrong

[Section315]

Don’t get me wrong, I really liked Bolduc. But yes, both Dvorsky and Snuggerud project to be better.

I thought I saw some fear in Snuggarud in the playoffs. Need a bigger sample, but he’s going to need be able to stick up for himself/stand his ground better than what I saw.

Snuggerud needs to hit the gym. Really needs to. He was willing to take the body down the stretch, yes, but he wasn't moving anybody.

[SameOldBlues]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

I mostly agree with your thought process, But try as we might, we still just dont know the actual value given up, and value received for that matter, till some time has gone by and we see what happens with both players going forward.

Right from the get go, RHD’s are a more valuable commodity, and one as young as LM with his outstanding potential is going to cost more than a winger of any substance simply cause of supply and demand, etc.

As ive said numerous times, everyone has the right to voice their opinion regardless of how right ir wrong they end up being. I just trully believe in time the overwhelming majority are going to be happy this trade was made. I could be wrong, but we’ll see.

[a smell of green grass]

If LM becomes a TOP4 defenseman, STL WON the trade. If LM does not become a TOP4 defenseman, STL definitely LOST the trade. Bolduc was very valuable prospect trade bait, and if LM does not result in something special, Armstrong traded Bolduc for the wrong guy.

Second, at the outset, the trade was a mismatch.

Yes, both teams traded their "surplus", but look closer.

Montreal traded away the weakest of their prospect RHD, and the guy with personal baggage.

St Louis traded away their strongest of their prospect Wingers, and the guy with known ultra-toughness.

As it stands now, Montreal won the trade. However, if LM becomes TOP4, then STL won the trade.

Your logic is "ill".

First, both GMs got what they wanted or they would not have made the trade.

Second, let's say Mailloux somehow does not crack the top-4. Then it kind of depends on what Bolduc amounts to. You cannot assume they could have traded Bolduc for some other player of greater value. Also, future value is established in the FUTURE, it is only projection at this juncture. One or both of these players could go down lame in training camp.

The "strongest" of the Blues prospect wingers was likely viewed to be Snuggerud. He is still a prospect.

Nobody right now "won" this trade, all evaluations end in projection and speculation. Again, each GM got what they wanted.

Every lemon for a car that has ever been purchased was bought by a man that "got what he wanted". Does that mean that no lemons have ever been purchased?

Your logic is "lemon", man. Very lemon.

[skilles]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

So with that premise, the Blues lost the Shanahan/Pronger trade? And the Brett Hull for Ramage and Wamsley?

I think you could easily say they overpaid and got lucky yes.

I don't really look at things with such a black and white small picture mentality like that, like winning or losing trades just based on which players are better in the long run.....that can and does involve lots of luck and uncontrollable.

A good example is ROR, I think we won that trade negotiation even though TT turned out great years later. I think they had the most valuable asset in the trade at the time. This time I think we lost the negotiation and gave up the most valuable asset at the time.

As Ive pointed out before I'd be shocked if more than a couple people thought differently before this trade was made.....I know I sure didn't see anyone calling for us to make this move.

I'd actually bet 90% of the homers defending it would have thought I was crazy had I suggested it before it happened.

[skilles]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

I mostly agree with your thought process, But try as we might, we still just dont know the actual value given up, and value received for that matter, till some time has gone by and we see what happens with both players going forward.

Right from the get go, RHD’s are a more valuable commodity, and one as young as LM with his outstanding potential is going to cost more than a winger of any substance simply cause of supply and demand, etc.

As ive said numerous times, everyone has the right to voice their opinion regardless of how right ir wrong they end up being. I just trully believe in time the overwhelming majority are going to be happy this trade was made. I could be wrong, but we’ll see.

I'm happy we have Mailloux now but that doesn't mean I'll ever think trading Bolduc was a good idea as I think he could have been gotten for less and we got impatient.

[SameOldBlues]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

I mostly agree with your thought process, But try as we might, we still just dont know the actual value given up, and value received for that matter, till some time has gone by and we see what happens with both players going forward.

Right from the get go, RHD’s are a more valuable commodity, and one as young as LM with his outstanding potential is going to cost more than a winger of any substance simply cause of supply and demand, etc.

As ive said numerous times, everyone has the right to voice their opinion regardless of how right ir wrong they end up being. I just trully believe in time the overwhelming majority are going to be happy this trade was made. I could be wrong, but we’ll see.

I'm happy we have Mailloux now but that doesn't mean I'll ever think trading Bolduc was a good idea as I think he could have been gotten for less and we got impatient.

But that’s simply your opinion, which youre entitled to, lots of ither people’s opinions are that good RHD’s are much harder ti come by than scoring wingers so giving to get was accomplished here and the Blues paid the going rate. We can beat this donkey to death and I dont think anyone’s changing their opinion, and that’s fine.

If Bolduc rips his shoulder apart in 2 years and loses his awesome shot, while LM becomes a top pairing stud, then the entire scope of the trade changes, and vice versa if Bolduc becomes a 40 goal scorer and LM is out of the league in 3 years after getting caught passing around vids of him having threesomes with albino amputees with a lisp and midget chicks with armpit hair so long it requires a bandana to keep it from fallin out of their blouse..

Lots of variables, which is the one thing I hope we all agree on.

[skilles]

I was just getting ready to say that there are no winners or losers, at this moment, simply cause noone has seen what either are on their new team, and most importantly..what they’ll become, in time.

Now its just all meaningless conjecture about percepted value, that’s it.

I think perceived value is pretty important and that is why I think we lost this trade. No matter who turns out better the current value is based on perception around the league and I think we got took handedly on a player that may well turn out great but didn't have near the trade value we traded for him.

Thats just my opinion, if you give more than market value for something and it turns out great you didn't win, you got lucky.

Just my perspective on trades.

If the Blues trade Thomas for a prospect and Thomas never produces again and the prospect produces a decent 3rd line career we didn't win, it was still a bad trade because Thomas was worth way more, we got lucky.

and just to be clear I love getting the player we got but I think we over paid.

I mostly agree with your thought process, But try as we might, we still just dont know the actual value given up, and value received for that matter, till some time has gone by and we see what happens with both players going forward.

Right from the get go, RHD’s are a more valuable commodity, and one as young as LM with his outstanding potential is going to cost more than a winger of any substance simply cause of supply and demand, etc.

As ive said numerous times, everyone has the right to voice their opinion regardless of how right ir wrong they end up being. I just trully believe in time the overwhelming majority are going to be happy this trade was made. I could be wrong, but we’ll see.

I'm happy we have Mailloux now but that doesn't mean I'll ever think trading Bolduc was a good idea as I think he could have been gotten for less and we got impatient.

But that’s simply your opinion, which youre entitled to, lots of ither people’s opinions are that good RHD’s are much harder ti come by than scoring wingers so giving to get was accomplished here and the Blues paid the going rate. We can beat this donkey to death and I dont think anyone’s changing their opinion, and that’s fine.

If Bolduc rips his shoulder apart in 2 years and loses his awesome shot, while LM becomes a top pairing stud, then the entire scope of the trade changes, and vice versa if Bolduc becomes a 40 goal scorer and LM is out of the league in 3 years after getting caught passing around vids of him having threesomes with albino amputees with a lisp and midget chicks with armpit hair so long it requires a bandana to keep it from fallin out of their blouse..

Lots of variables, which is the one thing I hope we all agree on.

Yes that is absolutely just my opinion.

I just don't agree that the quality of trades changes based on later injuries etc. and that goes both ways, I won't think the trade was a worse decision by Army if Mailloux gets injured. That IMO is an irrational and unfair method to judge trades.

[dhsux]

But he's not the strongest of the prospects.

I personally feel Bolduc can reach 40 goals scored in the coming years. He's been a prolific scorer his whole pro stint and showed this capability in the big show as well last year. He showed a lot of grit this past season as well. I liked everything about him.

So for me it is about the bounty at wing from other prospects to help replace him coupled with a top 4 performing role from Mailloux and yes, the Blues can win or at least succeed at achieving a good hockey trade, but more likely winning if those 2 things can happen.

What if Mailloux can bank 50 points and be a (presently missing) driving force on the PP?

The upside factor for the Blues should not be discounted.