About that aging defense corps . . .

[Tony Palazzolo]

From the vantage point of the end of the 2023-24 season how many of us envisioned THIS transition in the defense:

Broberg added
Fowler added
Mailloux added
Coach hired who likes Tucker

Suter signed, leveraged, and released
Krug to LTIR (terminal)
Leddy waived

An aging top-4 is 1/2 to 3/4 transformed into what figures to be a bigger, tougher, good skating, more point-productive unit with solid L/R balance.

Give the man some credit. This is awesome, frankly.

It takes time to turn an aircraft carrier around. The Cup team lost a lot of D - for a range of reasons (several outside of Army's control such as JBow). And if we knew we'd lost JBow, they don't expose Dunn to Seattle). The "older" D he went with was there to keep the boat afloat as much as possible.

You have a couple things reversed. JBo had his incident in 2020 and the Kraken expansion draft wasn’t until 2021 so we knew about him when we exposed Dunn. Schwartz should have counted as our contribution but Seattle gamed the system

how did they game the system

I don’t remember the specifics, but they negotiated with him in advance didn’t select him in expansion draft then just signed him once FA opened. Or something to that effect

The Blues absolutely got screwed. Basically, seattleblue, the Kraken had the right to exclusively speak to pending UFAs before they hit the market and before their draft BUT if they signed one before the draft, that was their pick from the old team. It is documented SEA spoke to Schwartz. They obviously agreed in principle on a deal because he signed with them within minutes of UFA opening. However, since they did not technically sign him before the draft, they ALSO got Dunn.

I honestly think the Blues should have filed a grievance and I was super (upset) that it was happening right in the open at the time. And how that obvious loophole was not taken into account with the rules is mindblowing.

They should have lost the right to select from the team if they chose to speak to the pending UFA.

It was all legal - once he hit free agency he could've signed with anyone. They just happened to know he wanted to be there so he could be closer to his dying mother.

Yes, they knew he was signing there, so instead of just signing him they delayed the signing so they could poach us of two players.

Was it within the rules? Sure, but that doesn't make it right.

Neither was Armstrong's poaching two first round players from Edmonton. In truth, they were gonna trade Dunn and Schwartz wanted to be closer to his family. Yes, we lost a possible asset from trading Dunn but it is what it is.

[TheJackBurton]

From the vantage point of the end of the 2023-24 season how many of us envisioned THIS transition in the defense:

Broberg added
Fowler added
Mailloux added
Coach hired who likes Tucker

Suter signed, leveraged, and released
Krug to LTIR (terminal)
Leddy waived

An aging top-4 is 1/2 to 3/4 transformed into what figures to be a bigger, tougher, good skating, more point-productive unit with solid L/R balance.

Give the man some credit. This is awesome, frankly.

It takes time to turn an aircraft carrier around. The Cup team lost a lot of D - for a range of reasons (several outside of Army's control such as JBow). And if we knew we'd lost JBow, they don't expose Dunn to Seattle). The "older" D he went with was there to keep the boat afloat as much as possible.

You have a couple things reversed. JBo had his incident in 2020 and the Kraken expansion draft wasn’t until 2021 so we knew about him when we exposed Dunn. Schwartz should have counted as our contribution but Seattle gamed the system

how did they game the system

I don’t remember the specifics, but they negotiated with him in advance didn’t select him in expansion draft then just signed him once FA opened. Or something to that effect

The Blues absolutely got screwed. Basically, seattleblue, the Kraken had the right to exclusively speak to pending UFAs before they hit the market and before their draft BUT if they signed one before the draft, that was their pick from the old team. It is documented SEA spoke to Schwartz. They obviously agreed in principle on a deal because he signed with them within minutes of UFA opening. However, since they did not technically sign him before the draft, they ALSO got Dunn.

I honestly think the Blues should have filed a grievance and I was super (upset) that it was happening right in the open at the time. And how that obvious loophole was not taken into account with the rules is mindblowing.

They should have lost the right to select from the team if they chose to speak to the pending UFA.

It was all legal - once he hit free agency he could've signed with anyone. They just happened to know he wanted to be there so he could be closer to his dying mother.

Yes, they knew he was signing there, so instead of just signing him they delayed the signing so they could poach us of two players.

Was it within the rules? Sure, but that doesn't make it right.

Neither was Armstrong's poaching two first round players from Edmonton. In truth, they were gonna trade Dunn and Schwartz wanted to be closer to his family. Yes, we lost a possible asset from trading Dunn but it is what it is.

offer sheeting 2 players isn't the same as working a loophole.

We weren't trading Dunn if he wasn't selected. Hell he'd likely still be here.

[TheJackBurton]

The rules didn't say if you sign a UFA then you can't get a player off that player's previous team. It just worked out the way it did.

Yes they did. If you signed a teams UFA that was the selected player from that team.

Seattle was granted a 48-hour window prior to the draft to sign any unprotected pending free agent (restricted or unrestricted, one per team). Teams that lost a player to Seattle during the signing window did not have a player selected from its roster during this draft as the signed player counted as Seattle's selection.[16]

They didn't sign Schwartz during that period because they also wanted Dunn. Once the draft was over and UFA started they sign Schwartz and got a twofer.

You're first correcting me on the rule then explaining why I'm actually correct about them not breaking any rules ... ?

Where did I say they broke any rules? Not breaking a rule doesn't make it ethically correct.

You literally bolded "the rules" part and the first thing you said was "Yes they did. "

I have a hugely busy day I don't have time to play word games

Yes you said the "rules didn't state that if you sign an UFA you can't get a player off that player's previous team"

That was patently false as I showed the rule. This isn't a word game, it's simple based fact.

All you had to say was, oops my mistake.

All you had to do was, if you were going to tell me I'm incorrect, be correct about that instead of not correct.

All you had to do was say 'yep my bad"

[Tony Palazzolo]

From the vantage point of the end of the 2023-24 season how many of us envisioned THIS transition in the defense:

Broberg added
Fowler added
Mailloux added
Coach hired who likes Tucker

Suter signed, leveraged, and released
Krug to LTIR (terminal)
Leddy waived

An aging top-4 is 1/2 to 3/4 transformed into what figures to be a bigger, tougher, good skating, more point-productive unit with solid L/R balance.

Give the man some credit. This is awesome, frankly.

It takes time to turn an aircraft carrier around. The Cup team lost a lot of D - for a range of reasons (several outside of Army's control such as JBow). And if we knew we'd lost JBow, they don't expose Dunn to Seattle). The "older" D he went with was there to keep the boat afloat as much as possible.

You have a couple things reversed. JBo had his incident in 2020 and the Kraken expansion draft wasn’t until 2021 so we knew about him when we exposed Dunn. Schwartz should have counted as our contribution but Seattle gamed the system

how did they game the system

I don’t remember the specifics, but they negotiated with him in advance didn’t select him in expansion draft then just signed him once FA opened. Or something to that effect

The Blues absolutely got screwed. Basically, seattleblue, the Kraken had the right to exclusively speak to pending UFAs before they hit the market and before their draft BUT if they signed one before the draft, that was their pick from the old team. It is documented SEA spoke to Schwartz. They obviously agreed in principle on a deal because he signed with them within minutes of UFA opening. However, since they did not technically sign him before the draft, they ALSO got Dunn.

I honestly think the Blues should have filed a grievance and I was super (upset) that it was happening right in the open at the time. And how that obvious loophole was not taken into account with the rules is mindblowing.

They should have lost the right to select from the team if they chose to speak to the pending UFA.

It was all legal - once he hit free agency he could've signed with anyone. They just happened to know he wanted to be there so he could be closer to his dying mother.

Yes, they knew he was signing there, so instead of just signing him they delayed the signing so they could poach us of two players.

Was it within the rules? Sure, but that doesn't make it right.

Neither was Armstrong's poaching two first round players from Edmonton. In truth, they were gonna trade Dunn and Schwartz wanted to be closer to his family. Yes, we lost a possible asset from trading Dunn but it is what it is.

offer sheeting 2 players isn't the same as working a loophole.

We weren't trading Dunn if he wasn't selected. Hell he'd likely still be here.

Dunn was done here. He wasn't happy with his ice time and the coaches weren't happy with him. Don't get me wrong, they didn't want Dunn to be picked in the expansion draft. That's why they left Tarensenko available. They wanted him to pull an asset in a trade.

[dhsux]

From the vantage point of the end of the 2023-24 season how many of us envisioned THIS transition in the defense:

Broberg added
Fowler added
Mailloux added
Coach hired who likes Tucker

Suter signed, leveraged, and released
Krug to LTIR (terminal)
Leddy waived

An aging top-4 is 1/2 to 3/4 transformed into what figures to be a bigger, tougher, good skating, more point-productive unit with solid L/R balance.

Give the man some credit. This is awesome, frankly.

It takes time to turn an aircraft carrier around. The Cup team lost a lot of D - for a range of reasons (several outside of Army's control such as JBow). And if we knew we'd lost JBow, they don't expose Dunn to Seattle). The "older" D he went with was there to keep the boat afloat as much as possible.

You have a couple things reversed. JBo had his incident in 2020 and the Kraken expansion draft wasn’t until 2021 so we knew about him when we exposed Dunn. Schwartz should have counted as our contribution but Seattle gamed the system

how did they game the system

I don’t remember the specifics, but they negotiated with him in advance didn’t select him in expansion draft then just signed him once FA opened. Or something to that effect

The Blues absolutely got screwed. Basically, seattleblue, the Kraken had the right to exclusively speak to pending UFAs before they hit the market and before their draft BUT if they signed one before the draft, that was their pick from the old team. It is documented SEA spoke to Schwartz. They obviously agreed in principle on a deal because he signed with them within minutes of UFA opening. However, since they did not technically sign him before the draft, they ALSO got Dunn.

I honestly think the Blues should have filed a grievance and I was super (upset) that it was happening right in the open at the time. And how that obvious loophole was not taken into account with the rules is mindblowing.

They should have lost the right to select from the team if they chose to speak to the pending UFA.

It was all legal - once he hit free agency he could've signed with anyone. They just happened to know he wanted to be there so he could be closer to his dying mother.

Yes, it wasn't nefarious imo, it was just highly beneficial to the Kraken.

[seattleblue]

The rules didn't say if you sign a UFA then you can't get a player off that player's previous team. It just worked out the way it did.

Yes they did. If you signed a teams UFA that was the selected player from that team.

Seattle was granted a 48-hour window prior to the draft to sign any unprotected pending free agent (restricted or unrestricted, one per team). Teams that lost a player to Seattle during the signing window did not have a player selected from its roster during this draft as the signed player counted as Seattle's selection.[16]

They didn't sign Schwartz during that period because they also wanted Dunn. Once the draft was over and UFA started they sign Schwartz and got a twofer.

You're first correcting me on the rule then explaining why I'm actually correct about them not breaking any rules ... ?

Where did I say they broke any rules? Not breaking a rule doesn't make it ethically correct.

You literally bolded "the rules" part and the first thing you said was "Yes they did. "

I have a hugely busy day I don't have time to play word games

Yes you said the "rules didn't state that if you sign an UFA you can't get a player off that player's previous team"

That was patently false as I showed the rule. This isn't a word game, it's simple based fact.

All you had to say was, oops my mistake.

All you had to do was, if you were going to tell me I'm incorrect, be correct about that instead of not correct.

All you had to do was say 'yep my bad"

You mean to tell me "the rules" said that when the Kraken signed Schwartz and other unrestricted free agents on July 28, it meant they couldn't also retroactively back in time have had their pick on July 21 during the expansion draft if there were any future team overlap? That this July 21 pick was now retroactively void per "the rules?" If that was what the league had wanted they would have made a rule saying "If you later sign a UFA you have to give that team's player back." It's because you really don't understand the 'U' part do you.

How exactly do you imagine this working Jack? Blues just get skipped on July 21 because "we're pretty sure we're getting Schwartz in a week" is that the rule you believe is workable that was in place and that I am supposed to say "my bad" for not understanding?

You're an incorrect grind and you should feel bad for your smugness.

Moreover, the irony of what we did to Leddy literally as your wrongness was unfolding itself underscores how hollow your whole whiny "we were wronged by Seattle when they used the rules the only way time works in a metaphysical realm where time only goes forward!" is to begin with.

[sdaltons]

Lmao everyone around knew Schwartz was signing there for several weeks before it happened. It's very clear they held off on announcing it so they could still select someone from us in the expansion draft.

Obviously there's no way to prove this or the Blues would have raised hell at the time. But I can tell you at least several days, maybe a week, before the expansion draft took place, in STL, we already knew Schwartz was leaving for Seattle.