Oli Marmol and attendance

[Honky Tonk Man]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

Did you miss the part where I said BDW is cheap?

That is etched in stone

[Cranny]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

Did you miss the part where I said BDW is cheap?

That is etched in stone

Why? Because he doesn’t spend out of his own pocket and compete with the Dodgers for free agents?

[ScotchMIrish]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

[WLTFE]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

Did you miss the part where I said BDW is cheap?

That is etched in stone

I was at two of the Cubs games in Section 148...and. even with Cubby fans there, we saw a lot of empty sections...fans are tired of an out of touch owner leaving a Mo-ran in charge.

[Adam2]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

The safety issue is an excuse for wimps

The Blues never have an issue, City never had an issue (not sure if theyre still packing the joint like they did, but thats performance issue)

Stop with the safety 'concern' its completely safe to go, thats not the reason.

+1...I go to 25-30 games a year...never had a problem...take the Metro....same thing...bunch of bull[shirt] nonsense.

I dont necessarily thinks its all safety. We don't really go because of the hassle. Driving a half hour, traffic, finding parking, waiting in lines everywhere for overpriced food and drink.

Lines for bathrooms. Add it all up and my wife and i just prefer to watch at home in our underwear

[JDW]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

The safety issue is an excuse for wimps

The Blues never have an issue, City never had an issue (not sure if theyre still packing the joint like they did, but thats performance issue)

Stop with the safety 'concern' its completely safe to go, thats not the reason.

+1...I go to 25-30 games a year...never had a problem...take the Metro....same thing...bunch of bull[shirt] nonsense.

I dont necessarily thinks its all safety. We don't really go because of the hassle. Driving a half hour, traffic, finding parking, waiting in lines everywhere for overpriced food and drink.

Lines for bathrooms. Add it all up and my wife and i just prefer to watch at home in our underwear

Wait, just upgrade to PJ's and that seems to be enough these days. Sure, us old timers will wrinkle our nose whether we intend to or not, but just ignore us. That and eat before you go. Surely you can make it a few hours w/o. Parkings surely not that big an issue with sub 30k crowds. Show up late to avoid the lines. And cover up your h assles for goodness sakes.

[Honky Tonk Man]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

Did you miss the part where I said BDW is cheap?

That is etched in stone

I was at two of the Cubs games in Section 148...and. even with Cubby fans there, we saw a lot of empty sections...fans are tired of an out of touch owner leaving a Mo-ran in charge.

but they have really nice family's

[WLTFE]

Frankly, I think it's hard for St. Louis to compete with the coasts and Chicago. It doesnt help that DeWitt is cheap. If Oli managed the Dodgers the same players would have signed there. I'm not a fan of his but I find it hard to believe players aren't coming because of him.

Do the math. These easily replaced burdens on the team combine for a stud contract

NA….25mil
Miles….18mil
Matz….10mil
Fedde…7.5mil

You can’t find an elite bat for 62mil per
MO loves wasting payroll on chit that can be replaced easily than he and Cranny cries that BDW can NEVER afford an elite player
Fake news

Did you miss the part where I said BDW is cheap?

That is etched in stone

I was at two of the Cubs games in Section 148...and. even with Cubby fans there, we saw a lot of empty sections...fans are tired of an out of touch owner leaving a Mo-ran in charge.

but they have really nice family's

+1

[JuanAgosto]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

Yes, with streaming options offering so many viewing options, I know many that have drawn the line at paying an additional $20 to get access to Fanduel.

As for safety, contrary to what some think on here, crime is an issue. Its not necessarily that people are afraid of it. They just want to avoid it.

[desertrat23]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

Yes, with streaming options offering so many viewing options, I know many that have drawn the line at paying an additional $20 to get access to Fanduel.

As for safety, contrary to what some think on here, crime is an issue. Its not necessarily that people are afraid of it. They just want to avoid it.

It’s easy to avoid. Park in the garage next to the stadium, stay in a crowd, walk across the street.

No one called downtown a scene from Mad Max when the team was winning.

[dugoutrex]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

lol - you sound like a kitty

p.s. - when I grew up and learned to love baseball MAYBE 20 games/year where on TV

[WLTFE]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

lol - you sound like a kitty

p.s. - when I grew up and learned to love baseball MAYBE 20 games/year where on TV

He needs to find his safe place.. he claims he hasn't gone to a game since the DH...

[ScotchMIrish]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

lol - you sound like a kitty

p.s. - when I grew up and learned to love baseball MAYBE 20 games/year where on TV

Me too. And attendance was lousy.

I used to work traffic for the Blues games. Do you see kitties working traffic?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... misc.shtml

[Bomber1]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Fans would rather stay home b/c of Oli than watch their team play .600 baseball at home? Maybe it's starting to be the fans.

This is a stupid post. You can't ever blame a fan for lack of interest in a team. You blame an organization for losing that rabid interest and then failing to capture it back.

There have been many contributing factors, of which Oli is one, but not the only:
- Public pronouncement regarding a "reset", cutting spending/investment in on-field roster, letting big name players leave while only bringing in a FA reliever
- Lack of certainty whether this "600" ball club will be invested in for a playoff run this year, or dismantled at the deadline for investment in their future
- Lack of future direction/certainty regarding management: Mo is leaving, what does Bloom takeover look like? Who will be in charge on the field and in the FO?
- Oli inspires a lack of faith from the outside observer. Has been combative with the league and players, shown poor roster construction, and made numerous poor in game decisions (notably costing the team in the postseason)

I used to watch every game and coming out of COVID was very energized to see baseball again. These past three years (and quite frankly the past 15 years of decision post TLR) have systematically disinterested me. I now prefer to focus on my family, hobbies and work than sit down to watch a baseball game.

Stupid post? Ouchie. The Cardinals have been their own worst enemy, no doubt. But to say you can't ever blame the fans is non-sensical. Why are you so adamant about absolving them? Because you are one, I suppose. The problem is most of your points here are silly. There is plenty to criticize about the organization, but you, unfortunately, haven't made many coherent criticisms to explain why people shouldn't start going to games since the team is winning, and winning at a .600 clip at home.

- What big name players did the Cardinals let leave who you wanted to keep? Did you really want Goldschmidt back or something? Are you clamoring for the days of Jason Heyward or still bummed about not re-signing Pujols? Who are these big names?
-So, because you don't know what's going to happen at the trade deadline, you're not going to the ballpark? Nobody ever knows what's going to happen at the deadline. Should the stadium just be completely empty until August?
-And because you don't know what the team is going to look like next season, you're not going to games this season? You want Oli gone and Mo leaving increases the chances of that, but b/c you don't know who Oli's replacement might be in 2026, fans like yourself should stay home in 2025? Does that really make any sense to you?
-Oli doesn't construct the roster. How do you not know that? He has been combative in the past. Seems like there haven't been many player related issues this season like there have been in the past with O'Neill and Contreras. What Manager could the Cardinals hire that would inspire you to go to a game, and why does the manager have so much influence over your attendance in the first place?
-You've been so disinterested since 2012 that you actively post on an internet forum about the Cardinals in 2025. Yeah, you're apathy is glaring. BTW, they went to the playoffs in 8 of those 13 years, possibly 9 of 14.

Look, I've been a big critic of this organization recently. But, the fact is they're currently surprising most and are playing good baseball. Fans should start showing up because of it. You shouldn't go to a game or stay home b/c of the POBO or Manager. Go because the team is playing fundamentally sound baseball and winning games. They're not winning b/c of a couple superstars. They're winning because they play as a team. Maybe it falls apart, but it's currently working and fans should start going again. Quit the bellyaching about Mo. He's gone in 3 months.

How about you spend your discretionary income how you want to spend it, and shut the hell up about how others should spend their discretionary income?

Sensitive forum today. It's clearly not about spending money. Very recently, the Cardinals were routinely drawing 3M+, and many on this forum were part of that 3M. On the list of grievances and reasons why people aren't attending, I've noticed affordability is towards the bottom. And if people want to give their reasons why they won't attend games, I'm well within my right to suggest reasons why they should. If that offends you, and it clearly does, then maybe consider stepping off your self-righteous horse, stop creating an issue out of thin air.....and go to a game.

No high horse, you are the one saying people should go to games.

I never said anything about affordability. That was you.

Nobody needs to justify why they do or don’t go to games.

And certainly no fan that fails to attend games needs absolving by you even though according to you they are to blame for what? Failing to continue to enrich DeWitt & Friends?

Only one of us is on a high horse and it’s not me.

[ScotchMIrish]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

Yes, with streaming options offering so many viewing options, I know many that have drawn the line at paying an additional $20 to get access to Fanduel.

As for safety, contrary to what some think on here, crime is an issue. Its not necessarily that people are afraid of it. They just want to avoid it.

Having the games on tv keeps people interested. I no longer live in St Louis but crime downtown has always been an issue. Perhaps people are more aware now. Not far from the hockey area a gang burned down a 7 - eleven during the riots. Police caught the perps. Prosecutor released them and didn't charge. That same gang used to set up shop across from the Kiel in the park. 99% of people going to the games and concerts had no idea. Best to be with a crowd for safety reasons.

[WLTFE]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

#2 on your list. I think the biggest factor is the TV deal. Cardinals used to be part of the basic package on Directv. Now it's an extra fee. Most casual fans will watch a few games but no pay extra when they have 100 channels to watch already. That's a big factor in loss of interest. For me and a few others the universal DH has caused me to stop watching.

Concerns of safety - that could be. I moved away from St Louis nearly 20 years ago to get away from the crime. I worked near the Enterprise Center and a lot of people don't realize how dangerous that area is.

Yes, with streaming options offering so many viewing options, I know many that have drawn the line at paying an additional $20 to get access to Fanduel.

As for safety, contrary to what some think on here, crime is an issue. Its not necessarily that people are afraid of it. They just want to avoid it.

Having the games on tv keeps people interested. I no longer live in St Louis but crime downtown has always been an issue. Perhaps people are more aware now. Not far from the hockey area a gang burned down a 7 - eleven during the riots. Police caught the perps. Prosecutor released them and didn't charge. That same gang used to set up shop across from the Kiel in the park. 99% of people going to the games and concerts had no idea. Best to be with a crowd for safety reasons.

Meow