Oli Marmol and attendance

[ForumPolice]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

[woofy25]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Fans would rather stay home b/c of Oli than watch their team play .600 baseball at home? Maybe it's starting to be the fans. Like or dislike Marmol, his team is winning and on pace for 90 wins. That is what should draw fans to the park. Maybe the Cardinals fall flat and the second half is a complete dud, but that's not the case right now. People would rather continue complaining and moaning than watch them play good baseball. weird

[Futuregm2]

I go back and forth. I’m not an Oli fan at all, but listening to the interview of Cerfolio he was really complimentary of the job that Marmol and his staff are doing and the work they’ve put in. There is a lot more behind the scenes that we don’t know about. And thus if Cerfolio is saying it, it may be how Bloom feels as well and so we should realize that even with Mo gone, Oli may not be gone, too. And that very well may be a good thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbhss-k26cA

[JuanAgosto]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

[bgwinn01]

The premise of this thread is preposterous.

[hullie]

Oli is doing fine. I know that upsets 75% of this forum.

[Natl20]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

The safety issue is an excuse for wimps

The Blues never have an issue, City never had an issue (not sure if theyre still packing the joint like they did, but thats performance issue)

Stop with the safety 'concern' its completely safe to go, thats not the reason.

[Cranny]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Add the carryover effect from Covid. People got used to staying home and watching things on TV or their computervthat they used to go to in person.

[WLTFE]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

The safety issue is an excuse for wimps

The Blues never have an issue, City never had an issue (not sure if theyre still packing the joint like they did, but thats performance issue)

Stop with the safety 'concern' its completely safe to go, thats not the reason.

+1...I go to 25-30 games a year...never had a problem...take the Metro....same thing...bunch of bull[shirt] nonsense.

[NorthernBird]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Fans would rather stay home b/c of Oli than watch their team play .600 baseball at home? Maybe it's starting to be the fans.

This is a stupid post. You can't ever blame a fan for lack of interest in a team. You blame an organization for losing that rabid interest and then failing to capture it back.

There have been many contributing factors, of which Oli is one, but not the only:
- Public pronouncement regarding a "reset", cutting spending/investment in on-field roster, letting big name players leave while only bringing in a FA reliever
- Lack of certainty whether this "600" ball club will be invested in for a playoff run this year, or dismantled at the deadline for investment in their future
- Lack of future direction/certainty regarding management: Mo is leaving, what does Bloom takeover look like? Who will be in charge on the field and in the FO?
- Oli inspires a lack of faith from the outside observer. Has been combative with the league and players, shown poor roster construction, and made numerous poor in game decisions (notably costing the team in the postseason)

I used to watch every game and coming out of COVID was very energized to see baseball again. These past three years (and quite frankly the past 15 years of decision post TLR) have systematically disinterested me. I now prefer to focus on my family, hobbies and work than sit down to watch a baseball game.

[3dender]

I'm ambivalent on Oli... seems like he's doing alright this year despite some frustrating decisions (lineups, too quick of hooks with cruising pitchers, bunting).

But I think it is silly to assert that fans are staying away despite winning baseball just cause they don't like Oli. 90% of fans just don't care that much about a manager.

Attendance is a lagging indicator... the dropoff from 2023 started in earnest last year and it has continued into this year. It takes time for interest to rebound, and it seems like we're already starting to see it. It's getting pretty obnoxious for media to complain about fans not showing up... literally what's it to them? At some point it just sounds like they're scolding consumers on behalf of the owners.

[ForumPolice]

I'm ambivalent on Oli... seems like he's doing alright this year despite some frustrating decisions (lineups, too quick of hooks with cruising pitchers, bunting).

But I think it is silly to assert that fans are staying away despite winning baseball just cause they don't like Oli. 90% of fans just don't care that much about a manager.

Attendance is a lagging indicator... the dropoff from 2023 started in earnest last year and it has continued into this year. It takes time for interest to rebound, and it seems like we're already starting to see it. It's getting pretty obnoxious for media to complain about fans not showing up... literally what's it to them? At some point it just sounds like they're scolding consumers on behalf of the owners.

I'm not sitting there staying away exclusively because of him. I'm saying that the look of the team with the roster they have and him at the helm has an overall Temu feel to it. As I stated earlier I did not like him getting the job in the first place but the wind really left my sails when he got an extension after sub 500 season. That single move showed me what the mindset of this team was and that it certainly wasn't that winning was an expectation anymore

[rockondlouie]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

+1

[woofy25]

They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Fans would rather stay home b/c of Oli than watch their team play .600 baseball at home? Maybe it's starting to be the fans.

This is a stupid post. You can't ever blame a fan for lack of interest in a team. You blame an organization for losing that rabid interest and then failing to capture it back.

There have been many contributing factors, of which Oli is one, but not the only:
- Public pronouncement regarding a "reset", cutting spending/investment in on-field roster, letting big name players leave while only bringing in a FA reliever
- Lack of certainty whether this "600" ball club will be invested in for a playoff run this year, or dismantled at the deadline for investment in their future
- Lack of future direction/certainty regarding management: Mo is leaving, what does Bloom takeover look like? Who will be in charge on the field and in the FO?
- Oli inspires a lack of faith from the outside observer. Has been combative with the league and players, shown poor roster construction, and made numerous poor in game decisions (notably costing the team in the postseason)

I used to watch every game and coming out of COVID was very energized to see baseball again. These past three years (and quite frankly the past 15 years of decision post TLR) have systematically disinterested me. I now prefer to focus on my family, hobbies and work than sit down to watch a baseball game.

Stupid post? Ouchie. The Cardinals have been their own worst enemy, no doubt. But to say you can't ever blame the fans is non-sensical. Why are you so adamant about absolving them? Because you are one, I suppose. The problem is most of your points here are silly. There is plenty to criticize about the organization, but you, unfortunately, haven't made many coherent criticisms to explain why people shouldn't start going to games since the team is winning, and winning at a .600 clip at home.

- What big name players did the Cardinals let leave who you wanted to keep? Did you really want Goldschmidt back or something? Are you clamoring for the days of Jason Heyward or still bummed about not re-signing Pujols? Who are these big names?
-So, because you don't know what's going to happen at the trade deadline, you're not going to the ballpark? Nobody ever knows what's going to happen at the deadline. Should the stadium just be completely empty until August?
-And because you don't know what the team is going to look like next season, you're not going to games this season? You want Oli gone and Mo leaving increases the chances of that, but b/c you don't know who Oli's replacement might be in 2026, fans like yourself should stay home in 2025? Does that really make any sense to you?
-Oli doesn't construct the roster. How do you not know that? He has been combative in the past. Seems like there haven't been many player related issues this season like there have been in the past with O'Neill and Contreras. What Manager could the Cardinals hire that would inspire you to go to a game, and why does the manager have so much influence over your attendance in the first place?
-You've been so disinterested since 2012 that you actively post on an internet forum about the Cardinals in 2025. Yeah, you're apathy is glaring. BTW, they went to the playoffs in 8 of those 13 years, possibly 9 of 14.

Look, I've been a big critic of this organization recently. But, the fact is they're currently surprising most and are playing good baseball. Fans should start showing up because of it. You shouldn't go to a game or stay home b/c of the POBO or Manager. Go because the team is playing fundamentally sound baseball and winning games. They're not winning b/c of a couple superstars. They're winning because they play as a team. Maybe it falls apart, but it's currently working and fans should start going again. Quit the bellyaching about Mo. He's gone in 3 months.

[JuanAgosto]

While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

The safety issue is an excuse for wimps

The Blues never have an issue, City never had an issue (not sure if theyre still packing the joint like they did, but thats performance issue)

Stop with the safety 'concern' its completely safe to go, thats not the reason.

Well, natl20, it is a concern for some. Its been discussed on here before. So it is an issue.

[Basil Shabazz]

Funny, I mentioned to a coworker this morning that I haven't yet figured out if Marmol is turning the corner w/ his in-game management and leadership in regards to establishing a winning culture.

We both though agreed that his demeanor and delivery are off-putting to a fan. He presents as egotistical and surly in most interview sessions. He bristles at any hint of criticism. There ar times in the dugout where he looks like a fanboy jock riding players after they do something successful.

I believe his initial missteps with Contreras, O'Neill, etc., combined with the aura he gives off as mentioned in paragraph 2, are reasons why some fans have no interest in going to the ballpark.

Personally, I go regardless because I love visiting the park and watching Cardinals baseball. I have been to 12 games this year already and will go to more. I just don't care for Oli and think the franchise can do better in the dugout. I do feel like we have the best group of assistant coaches since the TLR years.