rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:25 pm
I said in the other thread:
Buyer
-They need to add a RP to the pen', not a big move but a necessary one
-If they could find a RHHing OFer who could actually hit, then you could get a bigger deal (J. Walker dangled?)
Seller
-I'd move mountains and see if some team would take Mikolas (even if BDWJr has to eat some salary) just for his innings eating ability so Oli can slot M. McGreevy into his slot
-I'd move Matz, he's on the downswing and that IL stint could be looming
-Fedde might bring back something of value, I'd move him if they can't find a sucker errrrrrrr GM to take Mikolas again to clear a runway for McGreevy
Of the above, the bullpen arm is the move I think they'll for sure make.
O'Brien seems to be a big add to the pen. If Granillo is not seriously hurt, I think the pen is OK. They have 6 reliable guys, Helsley, Maton, Romero, O'Brien, Leahy and Matz. Most reliable guys they have had in a long time. King is OK and Svanson may also turn out to be pretty good. If Granillo is not hurt, then this team already has a dominant pen.
They really need a TOR SP as I think you have mentioned. As of now, I think McGreevy is one of their three best pitchers and is in the playoff rotation. If they could trade Fedde and get some prospects back, then trade for Alcantara and see if he can recover his old form, move Mikolas to the pen and McGreevy to the rotation, I think the pitching is set.
If the Cards are within 3 games of the division lead at the deadline. And Burleson is still hitting well and playing a decent RF. Would the Cardinals part with Jordan in a deal for Edward Cabrera from Miami.
I have said it numerous times, and I will repeat myself once more. Chemistry is huge factor to any winning team. We do not necessarily need to over pay for a stud. At the least though shop the contract guys and bring in talent that can breathe life into this team. Mikolas needs to be either in the pen or another team. It is time McGreevy got his shot. Helsley has lost value but could still be a sweetener for a deal with someone like a Nootbar, Gorman or Walker. I feel like a Gorman, Helsley, Mikolas deal could bring back at least a .280 20 HR Of'er with a year or two left. But all should be looked at.
Anticipating the playoffs this year feels like waiting for "The Great Pumpkin". It's a good team. It's a better team than we thought. Let's do a "third little pig" job of building this team. Build a house of bricks, not straw and sticks.
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 16:02 pm
This is such a tough question.
On one hand I am never one to give up when in contention. And hey, lets face it they are on a 90 game winning season and playoffs who knows? So I can't see them selling this year unless they fall flat the next few weeks. As such I see them as "tepid buyers" not sacrificing anything seriously meaningful (we hope) to make the team viable in the playoffs.
As rock said a key need on offense is a RHH OFer. Preferably a rightfielder. Like what we all hoped Walker would be. If they are serious and can get a real bat for Walker do it. However if it's a rental for Walker it better be a star. Would also need BP help.
If they do flounder and decide to sell they MUST move Fedde, Helsley for prospects. And if there is a taker with a return Nado. Flood the farm with talent because you never know which ones pan out.
Heck if there is a return move Contreras too. Getting 1Bs who can hit is easy on the open market in the off season.
i confess I think this team is better than I expected and they will probably make some minor adds at the break to contend.
I feel like the closest player to a “star” talent that could get moved would be Oneil Cruz. Honestly he’s the kind of electrifying talent we could use. 15 HR and 27 SBs in 30 attempts and only 26 years old walking at a 13% clip. I don’t know where we’d play him though. And I doubt we’d trade with Pitt.
We traded with Pittsburgh a few years ago when we traded Oviedo to them. Pittsburgh is going to want a lot for him. I am not sure he is the answer, he strikes out a ton, 108 so far this year and that BA of 210...and he bats LH. Super talent, I just don't think he helps now.
I suggested Rooker in another thread from the A's, RH hitter, with power, but not a good fielder. He makes more sense to me in terms of adding a RH bat. The problem is he makes the OF defense worse. But his team control for 4.5 years allows the Cards to trade him and get prospect value back in the future.
Yea the strikeouts are an issue. I do like that his chase rate is down and swing % miss is below his career norms. But I think his overall ability is something that can’t be taught, the rest could be helped by a new team and a hitting coach like Brant Brown. 96 mph EV, 22% Barrel% and 57% Hard hit rate is ridiculous. His power/speed potential and age factor just puts him on the potential superstar platform if a team could help him get there. I don’t know what the asking price would be though.
Yea Rooker would be a nice add, too. Biggest issue for me is the defense/DH likelihood and his age. I wish he were on the right side of 30.
Trading players on this team is going to be tough. How much of a market is there for Mikolas and Fedde. They’re healthy but that’s it. They haven’t been very good. Gray, Arenado and Contreras just don’t want to leave and the success of this team isn’t helping. Trying to trade guys like Nootbaar, Walker or Gorman would be a mistake because you would be moving guys who have minimal value now because of down years. The only guys who you could possibly trade and get something for are in the bullpen (Helsley, Maton and Matz).
The bullpen is a strength and their performance has backed that up. Helsley should be moved and it’s hard to believe he’s still here. Maton you could move and he’s not costing us much. That should give him some value. Matz is another guy, the longer we hang onto him the less we will get.
The good news is that Mikolas and Matz are on expiring contracts so they aren’t our problem after this year and that’s another 30 million in payroll leaving. Helsley and Maton are on expiring contracts but have value and we shouldn’t let them just walk. Arenado is on the back end of his contract which decreases in salary each year. Maybe if his year continues to be productive there could be a market BUT if he doesn’t want to leave we don’t have much to say about it.
Move the bullpen arms for sure but those might be the only ones we can. We have too many guys who just don’t want to leave.
Whatashame wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 17:25 pm
Trading players on this team is going to be tough. How much of a market is there for Mikolas and Fedde. They’re healthy but that’s it. They haven’t been very good. Gray, Arenado and Contreras just don’t want to leave and the success of this team isn’t helping. Trying to trade guys like Nootbaar, Walker or Gorman would be a mistake because you would be moving guys who have minimal value now because of down years. The only guys who you could possibly trade and get something for are in the bullpen (Helsley, Maton and Matz).
The bullpen is a strength and their performance has backed that up. Helsley should be moved and it’s hard to believe he’s still here. Maton you could move and he’s not costing us much. That should give him some value. Matz is another guy, the longer we hang onto him the less we will get.
The good news is that Mikolas and Matz are on expiring contracts so they aren’t our problem after this year and that’s another 30 million in payroll leaving. Helsley and Maton are on expiring contracts but have value and we shouldn’t let them just walk. Arenado is on the back end of his contract which decreases in salary each year. Maybe if his year continues to be productive there could be a market BUT if he doesn’t want to leave we don’t have much to say about it.
Move the bullpen arms for sure but those might be the only ones we can. We have too many guys who just don’t want to leave.
Whatashame wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 17:25 pm
Trading players on this team is going to be tough. How much of a market is there for Mikolas and Fedde. They’re healthy but that’s it. They haven’t been very good. Gray, Arenado and Contreras just don’t want to leave and the success of this team isn’t helping. Trying to trade guys like Nootbaar, Walker or Gorman would be a mistake because you would be moving guys who have minimal value now because of down years. The only guys who you could possibly trade and get something for are in the bullpen (Helsley, Maton and Matz).
The bullpen is a strength and their performance has backed that up. Helsley should be moved and it’s hard to believe he’s still here. Maton you could move and he’s not costing us much. That should give him some value. Matz is another guy, the longer we hang onto him the less we will get.
The good news is that Mikolas and Matz are on expiring contracts so they aren’t our problem after this year and that’s another 30 million in payroll leaving. Helsley and Maton are on expiring contracts but have value and we shouldn’t let them just walk. Arenado is on the back end of his contract which decreases in salary each year. Maybe if his year continues to be productive there could be a market BUT if he doesn’t want to leave we don’t have much to say about it.
Move the bullpen arms for sure but those might be the only ones we can. We have too many guys who just don’t want to leave.
If they are in playoff contention, trading Helsley, Maton and Matz is not going to work. The fanbase would leave in droves... If they are contending, they should buy and use the freed up payroll to fill gaps in 2026. Other than Helsley, I can't imagine any of the other 4 will get too much. Helsley you can make a QO offer to or an extension. I am guessing he gets somewhere in the 3/$42M as a free agent. The Cards can afford that if they want to. While Fedde probably has low value, since they have a replacement in McGreevy, if someone offers something for him, I would move him.
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 16:02 pm
This is such a tough question.
On one hand I am never one to give up when in contention. And hey, lets face it they are on a 90 game winning season and playoffs who knows? So I can't see them selling this year unless they fall flat the next few weeks. As such I see them as "tepid buyers" not sacrificing anything seriously meaningful (we hope) to make the team viable in the playoffs.
As rock said a key need on offense is a RHH OFer. Preferably a rightfielder. Like what we all hoped Walker would be. If they are serious and can get a real bat for Walker do it. However if it's a rental for Walker it better be a star. Would also need BP help.
If they do flounder and decide to sell they MUST move Fedde, Helsley for prospects. And if there is a taker with a return Nado. Flood the farm with talent because you never know which ones pan out.
Heck if there is a return move Contreras too. Getting 1Bs who can hit is easy on the open market in the off season.
i confess I think this team is better than I expected and they will probably make some minor adds at the break to contend.
I feel like the closest player to a “star” talent that could get moved would be Oneil Cruz. Honestly he’s the kind of electrifying talent we could use. 15 HR and 27 SBs in 30 attempts and only 26 years old walking at a 13% clip. I don’t know where we’d play him though. And I doubt we’d trade with Pitt.
We traded with Pittsburgh a few years ago when we traded Oviedo to them. Pittsburgh is going to want a lot for him. I am not sure he is the answer, he strikes out a ton, 108 so far this year and that BA of 210...and he bats LH. Super talent, I just don't think he helps now.
I suggested Rooker in another thread from the A's, RH hitter, with power, but not a good fielder. He makes more sense to me in terms of adding a RH bat. The problem is he makes the OF defense worse. But his team control for 4.5 years allows the Cards to trade him and get prospect value back in the future.
Yea the strikeouts are an issue. I do like that his chase rate is down and swing % miss is below his career norms. But I think his overall ability is something that can’t be taught, the rest could be helped by a new team and a hitting coach like Brant Brown. 96 mph EV, 22% Barrel% and 57% Hard hit rate is ridiculous. His power/speed potential and age factor just puts him on the potential superstar platform if a team could help him get there. I don’t know what the asking price would be though.
Yea Rooker would be a nice add, too. Biggest issue for me is the defense/DH likelihood and his age. I wish he were on the right side of 30.
If they are going to add at the deadline, I think they need to add a guy that adds more certainty, not a project. As much as Cruz could be great, I have a hard time getting the video out of my head of him missing the ground ball in the OF and just looking at it while making no effort to run it down at all. Not even a step...I don't see that working with the Cards. Plus, he is a minus defender in CF, while Scott is an absolute stud defender. To me, Cruz represents everything about why the Pirates never win anything. Extremely talented guy, holes in his game that are not fixed and makes some boneheaded plays and does not seem to care. That is a problem. I don't disagree on his potential level.
I don’t think Mo will dismantle this team while they are in contention. It’s his last swan song and he will want to go out with at least a playoff birth. With Herrera out, a right handed bat is really needed, but hopefully he will return sooner rather than later.
My thing is if they keep Fedde, Matz, Mikolas, and Helsley all season, they won’t get anything for them when they become free agents. I still would like to see them extend Helsley, but very questionable that they will. Matz and Mikolas won’t bring back anything of value anyway. Fedde is the one they almost have to trade. I highly doubt they extend him and a qualifing offer won’t bring back much. A lot of teams could use a steady starter and we need a spot for McGreevy. Package him with one of our minor league redundant players and get the best prospect you can get!
rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:25 pm
I said in the other thread:
Buyer
-They need to add a RP to the pen', not a big move but a necessary one
-If they could find a RHHing OFer who could actually hit, then you could get a bigger deal (J. Walker dangled?)
Seller
-I'd move mountains and see if some team would take Mikolas (even if BDWJr has to eat some salary) just for his innings eating ability so Oli can slot M. McGreevy into his slot
-I'd move Matz, he's on the downswing and that IL stint could be looming
-Fedde might bring back something of value, I'd move him if they can't find a sucker errrrrrrr GM to take Mikolas again to clear a runway for McGreevy
Of the above, the bullpen arm is the move I think they'll for sure make.
It would be easier to find a market for Mikolas than to get him to waive his no trade clause.
Agreed
Abd if they did find a market for him and he refused to waive the NTC, then I'd tell him it's bullpen time or DFA.
He's been hurting the team since 2023 (4.99 ERA: 2023-Current) and he's NOT a legacy player.
No tears would be shed in Cardinals Nation if he were DFA'd.
JMO
Giving Mikolas a NTC just shows Mo's ineptitude at signing players. He's so bad that he has given inflated contracts to average to bad players. Cecil, Fowler, Leake, Miller, Holland, Gregerson, etc.
Hoosier59 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 17:44 pm
I don’t think Mo will dismantle this team while they are in contention. It’s his last swan song and he will want to go out with at least a playoff birth. With Herrera out, a right handed bat is really needed, but hopefully he will return sooner rather than later.
My thing is if they keep Fedde, Matz, Mikolas, and Helsley all season, they won’t get anything for them when they become free agents. I still would like to see them extend Helsley, but very questionable that they will. Matz and Mikolas won’t bring back anything of value anyway. Fedde is the one they almost have to trade. I highly doubt they extend him and a qualifing offer won’t bring back much. A lot of teams could use a steady starter and we need a spot for McGreevy. Package him with one of our minor league redundant players and get the best prospect you can get!
No guarantee that our starters will remain healthy
rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:25 pm
I said in the other thread:
Buyer
-They need to add a RP to the pen', not a big move but a necessary one
-If they could find a RHHing OFer who could actually hit, then you could get a bigger deal (J. Walker dangled?)
Seller
-I'd move mountains and see if some team would take Mikolas (even if BDWJr has to eat some salary) just for his innings eating ability so Oli can slot M. McGreevy into his slot
-I'd move Matz, he's on the downswing and that IL stint could be looming
-Fedde might bring back something of value, I'd move him if they can't find a sucker errrrrrrr GM to take Mikolas again to clear a runway for McGreevy
Of the above, the bullpen arm is the move I think they'll for sure make.
It would be easier to find a market for Mikolas than to get him to waive his no trade clause.
Agreed
Abd if they did find a market for him and he refused to waive the NTC, then I'd tell him it's bullpen time or DFA.
He's been hurting the team since 2023 (4.99 ERA: 2023-Current) and he's NOT a legacy player.
No tears would be shed in Cardinals Nation if he were DFA'd.
JMO
Giving Mikolas a NTC just shows Mo's ineptitude at signing players. He's so bad that he has given inflated contracts to average to bad players. Cecil, Fowler, Leake, Miller, Holland, Gregerson, etc.
And extending Mikolas way too soon was just plain stupid.
Mo's gone in three months, hopefully takes Oli w/him!
If Oli would become his own man and stop with the idiotic Mo influenced lineups and insistence on lefty-righty matchups, I could tolerate him staying. He seems to have gotten better with player relations (at least no stories have leaked this year). And the team is more fundamentally sound and plays hard. It would be interesting to see how he could do without Mo's presence.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:25 pm
I said in the other thread:
Buyer
-They need to add a RP to the pen', not a big move but a necessary one
-If they could find a RHHing OFer who could actually hit, then you could get a bigger deal (J. Walker dangled?)
Seller
-I'd move mountains and see if some team would take Mikolas (even if BDWJr has to eat some salary) just for his innings eating ability so Oli can slot M. McGreevy into his slot
-I'd move Matz, he's on the downswing and that IL stint could be looming
-Fedde might bring back something of value, I'd move him if they can't find a sucker errrrrrrr GM to take Mikolas again to clear a runway for McGreevy
Of the above, the bullpen arm is the move I think they'll for sure make.
It would be easier to find a market for Mikolas than to get him to waive his no trade clause.
Agreed
Abd if they did find a market for him and he refused to waive the NTC, then I'd tell him it's bullpen time or DFA.
He's been hurting the team since 2023 (4.99 ERA: 2023-Current) and he's NOT a legacy player.
No tears would be shed in Cardinals Nation if he were DFA'd.
JMO
Giving Mikolas a NTC just shows Mo's ineptitude at signing players. He's so bad that he has given inflated contracts to average to bad players. Cecil, Fowler, Leake, Miller, Holland, Gregerson, etc.
Yawn
Another insightful post by the forum (bleep). Go bother someone else you jackass.
