Poll for Cards Talk- Which poster would make the best GM

[Ike Hammett]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

[desertrat23]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

They’ve won ONE playoff game with all those guys you mentioned. Couldn’t get much worse …

[Ike Hammett]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

They’ve won ONE playoff game with all those guys you mentioned. Couldn’t get much worse …

That's false. The Cards made the postseason 4 out of the 6 years with Goldy and won 4 games. Not bad. It could definitely have been worse. Except for the 2019 NLCS all those playoff series were very even and tight, could have gone either way and none of those teams were any better. That's baseball, someone will lose.

[Cranny]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

They’ve won ONE playoff game with all those guys you mentioned. Couldn’t get much worse …

That's false. The Cards made the postseason 4 out of the 6 years with Goldy and won 4 games. Not bad. It could definitely have been worse. Except for the 2019 NLCS all those playoff series were very even and tight, could have gone either way and none of those teams were any better. That's baseball, someone will lose.

Exactly.

[ICCFIM2]

The duties of a POBO and GM are far and wide, and require years of experience in the industry. No poster is qualified.

Given decisions and results of the past decade, you may well be overestimating the difficulty of the job and overvaluing experience.
For example, how hard could it possibly be to recognize the team has not had an established, productive, reliable, all-star quality outfielder for many, many years and that it would be a good idea to acquire one?
Would you like me to provide a dozen similar examples of ineptitude and incompetence on the part of Super Slo Mo?

If Moe can do it, anyone can do it. How smart do you have to be to hire MM, Schildt and Oli in succession? Actually, that kind of extreme stupid can’t be underestimated. You have to be very, very secure in your job to do something that incredibly stupid.

I may not agree with Cranny that often, but in this case, he is spot on. The complications of being a GM/POBO is immense. Yes, every mistake MO makes is scrutinized to death with the benefit of hindsight. But look at all the personnel decisions he made over the year that worked out.

Matt Holliday
Carlos Beltran
The Dotel trade in 2011
The Furcal trade in 2011
Goldschmidt
Arenado (even if the last couple of years end badly, we gave up nothing)
On this team, Romero for Sosa, Maton signing, despite the last 2 years, all the draft picks starting with 2020 are now rounding out a pretty decent starting 8. Bloom will inherit a team that is in better shape than any Cards roster since around 2015.
Pitching is weak in the system, that is partly due to injury partly due to bad drafting. But, there are a few arms that are OK.

The ability to judge not just star talent, but all the pieces required to make a good team requires a huge eye for talent, the actual pieces that are missing etc. Further, none of us have the Dewitt's sitting over our shoulder limiting the resources we would all like to spend.

[11WSChamps]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

You're missing the point.

BTW you and Cranny share the same basement computer?

[desertrat23]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

They’ve won ONE playoff game with all those guys you mentioned. Couldn’t get much worse …

That's false. The Cards made the postseason 4 out of the 6 years with Goldy and won 4 games. Not bad. It could definitely have been worse. Except for the 2019 NLCS all those playoff series were very even and tight, could have gone either way and none of those teams were any better. That's baseball, someone will lose.

I stand corrected, you are of course correct that they won a series in 2019. Their playoff record over that time is a sterling 4-11; a worthy addition to the storied Cardinal legacy it is not. If you consider that “not bad” I encourage you to consider higher standards.

[mattmitchl44]

Regarding Harper, so far he's been a fine signing for the Phillies (25 fWAR over 3800+ PA from 2019-today; or about 4.4 fWAR per 600 PA). He's been more than worth the $25+ million AAV of his deal.

However, this period at the beginning of the contract from his age 26 to now age 32 seasons are when the Phillies need to be stacking value, and preferably for them a World Series win or two, because as his contract continues to run out through 2031 you should his productivity to decline.

[Bully4you]

Regarding Harper, so far he's been a fine signing for the Phillies (25 fWAR over 3800+ PA from 2019-today; or about 4.4 fWAR per 600 PA). He's been more than worth the $25+ million AAV of his deal.

However, this period at the beginning of the contract from his age 26 to now age 32 seasons are when the Phillies need to be stacking value, and preferably for them a World Series win or two, because as his contract continues to run out through 2031 you should his productivity to decline.

I don't know.
This isn't a front office issue with Philly.
They've put them in position.
Went to 1 WS already and deep in playoffs.
It's kind of up to the players at some point, correct?
If your close, you gotta take it.

[Quincy Varnish]

mattmitch, rbi, futuregm or Ronnie Dobbs... pretty easy

Again, none. Some posters think they’re experts in running a baseball organization, but they’re not.
It takes years of experience in the industry to qualify for the job. Look at all the departments employees up and down the organization that the position is responsible for.

You really take life too serious.
As Jack would say "You need a lot of drinks"
To kill the bug that's up your ars.

Sorry. What a terrific thread! Fascinating to see what posters think of other posters. Better, B4Y?

Realistically it’s a list of posters who cherish the smell of their own flatulence. You have every right to feel slighted.

[mattmitchl44]

Regarding Harper, so far he's been a fine signing for the Phillies (25 fWAR over 3800+ PA from 2019-today; or about 4.4 fWAR per 600 PA). He's been more than worth the $25+ million AAV of his deal.

However, this period at the beginning of the contract from his age 26 to now age 32 seasons are when the Phillies need to be stacking value, and preferably for them a World Series win or two, because as his contract continues to run out through 2031 you should his productivity to decline.

I don't know.
This isn't a front office issue with Philly.
They've put them in position.
Went to 1 WS already and deep in playoffs.
It's kind of up to the players at some point, correct?
If your close, you gotta take it.

Again, the Harper signing and the other moves they have made (Realmuto, Wheeler, etc.) have generally been productive so far. They've had a Top 5 MLB payroll for several years now and have made use of it pretty well.

But they are locked into Harper (through 2031), Turner (through 2033), and Nola (through 2030) for a long, long time. That's what the Phillies FO had to give them to have them now.

Eventually those contracts are very likely to turn sour. If they have an optimal window, it's probably between now and about 2027 or 2028 to get it done.

[Ike Hammett]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

They’ve won ONE playoff game with all those guys you mentioned. Couldn’t get much worse …

That's false. The Cards made the postseason 4 out of the 6 years with Goldy and won 4 games. Not bad. It could definitely have been worse. Except for the 2019 NLCS all those playoff series were very even and tight, could have gone either way and none of those teams were any better. That's baseball, someone will lose.

I stand corrected, you are of course correct that they won a series in 2019. Their playoff record over that time is a sterling 4-11; a worthy addition to the storied Cardinal legacy it is not. If you consider that “not bad” I encourage you to consider higher standards.

Yup, making the postseason 4 out of 6 years isn't bad. Those teams averaged more than 90 wins (except the covid year). That's more than the Phillies made the postseason and they had more wins than Philadelphia the year they went to the WS. I agree that isn't great, so do the Cardinals and want to be better but quit acting like everything has just been Reds or Pirates bad. Who else has won a playoff series in this division since the Cardinals? Nobody!

[moose-and-squirrel]

Any poster who didn't advocate for signing Harper when he became a FA is automatically disqualified.

Huh? We got Goldy around the same time. He was more affordable for you "business like" people, won an MVP, and was a great Cardinal. How was Harper so much better? Did he contribute to ever winning the WS? The Phillies are a lot more than just Harper. What exactly makes you so certain the Cards fate is any different with him?

A much younger player with his whole prime in front of him.

Have you seen hispostseason numbers as a Phillie? He's not the reason they haven't won one yet.

This is crazy talk! If the Cards got into a bidding war with the crazy spend Phillies that 13yr $330 million contract might have been 15 year $400+ million. For that kind of loot Cards could go get Goldy, Nado, Contreras and Sonny Gray AND DID!

You honestly think Harper would have been a better deal than those 4 and gave the Cards a better chance to go deep into the playoffs? Oh heck no! You should be disqualified and Mr. Mo should get a red jacket!

think some also forget that STL had one of the best prospects in baseball coming up that year that just happened to play RF as well

[sikeston bulldog2]

So. If we select our future GM, will we do it like the Catholic choose a Pope. What’s our criteria.

[Goldfan]

The duties of a POBO and GM are far and wide, and require years of experience in the industry. No poster is qualified.

Given decisions and results of the past decade, you may well be overestimating the difficulty of the job and overvaluing experience.
For example, how hard could it possibly be to recognize the team has not had an established, productive, reliable, all-star quality outfielder for many, many years and that it would be a good idea to acquire one?
Would you like me to provide a dozen similar examples of ineptitude and incompetence on the part of Super Slo Mo?

If Moe can do it, anyone can do it. How smart do you have to be to hire MM, Schildt and Oli in succession? Actually, that kind of extreme stupid can’t be underestimated. You have to be very, very secure in your job to do something that incredibly stupid.

I may not agree with Cranny that often, but in this case, he is spot on. The complications of being a GM/POBO is immense. Yes, every mistake MO makes is scrutinized to death with the benefit of hindsight. But look at all the personnel decisions he made over the year that worked out.

Matt Holliday
Carlos Beltran
The Dotel trade in 2011
The Furcal trade in 2011
Goldschmidt
Arenado (even if the last couple of years end badly, we gave up nothing)
On this team, Romero for Sosa, Maton signing, despite the last 2 years, all the draft picks starting with 2020 are now rounding out a pretty decent starting 8. Bloom will inherit a team that is in better shape than any Cards roster since around 2015.
Pitching is weak in the system, that is partly due to injury partly due to bad drafting. But, there are a few arms that are OK.

The ability to judge not just star talent, but all the pieces required to make a good team requires a huge eye for talent, the actual pieces that are missing etc. Further, none of us have the Dewitt's sitting over our shoulder limiting the resources we would all like to spend.

Unfortunately 2011 was the last season MO went all out to win. Perhaps they knew Pujols, TRL/Dunc would be gone……but needing to go back 14yrs to the last WS series win to prove MO has made some impactful moves is a great reach. Especially since it’s been discussed extensively that the last decade has been an incomplete wasteland.

[thetank2]

Regarding Harper, so far he's been a fine signing for the Phillies (25 fWAR over 3800+ PA from 2019-today; or about 4.4 fWAR per 600 PA). He's been more than worth the $25+ million AAV of his deal.

However, this period at the beginning of the contract from his age 26 to now age 32 seasons are when the Phillies need to be stacking value, and preferably for them a World Series win or two, because as his contract continues to run out through 2031 you should his productivity to decline.

Harper's problem is he misses lots of games. Expect a dime a dozen OF output of 70 RBIs and 70 runs scored in the future years.