Respect for Mozeliak

[Cranny]

And managers impact that, too. Oli isn’t a good manager, Shildt wasn’t a good manager. We saw that with the recent poll where both of them were 2 of the top 3 in votes getting for who you wouldn’t want as a manager. And both were hired by Mo.

BINGO!

Shildt wasn't a good manager? LOL. Didn't he have some sort of a long winning streak? Like one of the longest in
Cardinal history? And by the way, how's he doing with the Padres right now?

You've left the thread. The thread was started to see if making the playoffs, or setting the farm system up really well would change in any way the way you view John Mozeliak's legacy. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems like for you the answer is no. It seems like your mind is firmly made up about how you view Mozeliak and what he has done. It's okay to feel that way, You aren't the only one who thinks he has done well. I'm wondering if there are others who could still adjust their view, even if only incrementally. If I have unfairly characterized your thoughts on the subject, feel free to fix that. If you have views on other topics start another thread. I always enjoy reading your comments on baseball topics.

How can I have "left the thread" when all I was doing was responding to what Rock and FutureGM said?

[Rojo Johnson]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

We’re spoiled. Deal with it, just like we have to deal all the bootlicking from some on here. Even those making up garbage about supporting the players when you/they really mean to put money in your favorite guy’s pockets. That was about as see thru as it comes. And you know it.

Rojo - Why don't you read some of the quotes from the players about how important support is from the hometown crowd.

My response is “nothing personal, just business”. Heard that one before?

[Cranny]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

We’re spoiled. Deal with it, just like we have to deal all the bootlicking from some on here. Even those making up garbage about supporting the players when you/they really mean to put money in your favorite guy’s pockets. That was about as see thru as it comes. And you know it.

Rojo - Why don't you read some of the quotes from the players about how important support is from the hometown crowd.

My response is “nothing personal, just business”. Heard that one before?

Players aren't robots. They response to fans' cheers.

[2ninr]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

[Rojo Johnson]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

[WLTFE]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

+1... I've been part of shared season tix in Section 148 for years..attendance is down and a lot of people in my area haven't renewed their tix...the best crowds were the Dodgers series...Ohtani and a lot of a Dodgers blue...people can't wait for Mo-ran to go spend more time with his beautiful family!

[Cranny]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.
Look at the regular seasons of 2006 and 2011. The Cards weren't predicted to go all the way by any
respected baseball analysts. There probably should be a reset by fans who think the Cardinals can return
to the glory years of fans expecting the Cardinals to go deep into the playoffs and to the WS every season. The industry has changed with the salary lid being blown off by the big market teams. I hate to say this, but the best that can probably be expected is to make the playoffs every season and whatever happens in the playoffs simply happens. Tough to say, but probably true. How long has it really been since the Cardinals were favorites to be one of the two teams in the WS?

[Talkin' Baseball]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.
Look at the regular seasons of 2006 and 2011. The Cards weren't predicted to go all the way by any
respected baseball analysts. There probably should be a reset by fans who think the Cardinals can return
to the glory years of fans expecting the Cardinals to go deep into the playoffs and to the WS every season. The industry has changed with the salary lid being blown off by the big market teams. I hate to say this, but the best that can probably be expected is to make the playoffs every season and whatever happens in the playoffs simply happens. Tough to say, but probably true. How long has it really been since the Cardinals were favorites to be one of the two teams in the WS?

ohhh pllleeease

[rockondlouie]

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.

Of course it's the fans problem for spending multi-millions of dollars filling BDWJr's pockets to the tune of 3+M for decades and oh the horror we ungrateful fans have to audacity to expect him to re-invest and build a winner.

[Rojo Johnson]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.
Look at the regular seasons of 2006 and 2011. The Cards weren't predicted to go all the way by any
respected baseball analysts. There probably should be a reset by fans who think the Cardinals can return
to the glory years of fans expecting the Cardinals to go deep into the playoffs and to the WS every season. The industry has changed with the salary lid being blown off by the big market teams. I hate to say this, but the best that can probably be expected is to make the playoffs every season and whatever happens in the playoffs simply happens. Tough to say, but probably true. How long has it really been since the Cardinals were favorites to be one of the two teams in the WS?

Cranny, that is absurd. What is it? One win in the last ten playoff games? Where do you get this stuff? Preposterous.

[desertrat23]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.
Look at the regular seasons of 2006 and 2011. The Cards weren't predicted to go all the way by any
respected baseball analysts. There probably should be a reset by fans who think the Cardinals can return
to the glory years of fans expecting the Cardinals to go deep into the playoffs and to the WS every season. The industry has changed with the salary lid being blown off by the big market teams. I hate to say this, but the best that can probably be expected is to make the playoffs every season and whatever happens in the playoffs simply happens. Tough to say, but probably true. How long has it really been since the Cardinals were favorites to be one of the two teams in the WS?

When 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs, simply getting in should be the bare minimum acceptable, not “the best that can probably be expected.”

[Cranny]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.
Look at the regular seasons of 2006 and 2011. The Cards weren't predicted to go all the way by any
respected baseball analysts. There probably should be a reset by fans who think the Cardinals can return
to the glory years of fans expecting the Cardinals to go deep into the playoffs and to the WS every season. The industry has changed with the salary lid being blown off by the big market teams. I hate to say this, but the best that can probably be expected is to make the playoffs every season and whatever happens in the playoffs simply happens. Tough to say, but probably true. How long has it really been since the Cardinals were favorites to be one of the two teams in the WS?

When 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs, simply getting in should be the bare minimum acceptable, not “the best that can probably be expected.”

I'll buy that, rat. It should be the bare minimum. But if you think the Cardinals will be favorites to get to the WS, I think you may be disappointed year after year.

[Bob Kunush]

Its possible to respect Mo's overall career accomplishments in various positions over a long career, while at the same time be critical of some of his work in recent years.

It is also possible to be more than ready to have him step down, which I am, and try somebody else without personally attacking him or acting like he hasn't had a very good overall career with Cardinals. They did a lot of winning with him in the positions of Scouting and Development, Assistant GM, and his other various titles he had while being the top guy.

Thank you Mo for a good Cardibal career, and thank you for walking away from it and letting some new people with new ideas try to run things.

[riff raff]

Its possible to respect Mo's overall career accomplishments in various positions over a long career, while at the same time be critical of some of his work in recent years.

It is also possible to be more than ready to have him step down, which I am, and try somebody else without personally attacking him or acting like he hasn't had a very good overall career with Cardinals. They did a lot of winning with him in the positions of Scouting and Development, Assistant GM, and his other various titles he had while being the top guy.

Thank you Mo for a good Cardibal career, and thank you for walking away from it and letting some new people with new ideas try to run things.

Mo hired Bloom but will never get credit for it.
Thanks to Mo; Bloom is set up for success. This team isn't that far away.

[Honky Tonk Man]

Its possible to respect Mo's overall career accomplishments in various positions over a long career, while at the same time be critical of some of his work in recent years.

It is also possible to be more than ready to have him step down, which I am, and try somebody else without personally attacking him or acting like he hasn't had a very good overall career with Cardinals. They did a lot of winning with him in the positions of Scouting and Development, Assistant GM, and his other various titles he had while being the top guy.

Thank you Mo for a good Cardibal career, and thank you for walking away from it and letting some new people with new ideas try to run things.

Nice post Bob

[desertrat23]

The “knee jerk”, “what have you done for me lately” crowd is all over this thread. They turn their back on the fact that the Cards have had only two losing seasons this century, and have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons. And in two of those three 90 or more win seasons won the Central.

You are right about his regular season record. How about his playoff record the last 10 years? I always maintained you could do a lot worse than Mo. But his ego and arrogance grew and he decided he didn't need guys like LaRussa telling him what to do about player personnel. And apparently that was probably the case with Mike Schildt. And we haven't seen playoff success since. Now we can do a lot better. JFTR I don't put it all on Mo. DeWitt has a role in it as well. Either way, look at the present attendance. That's not going to change without some playoff success.

You put a team on the field that wins 90 or more games over 6 months, and then the playoffs start. It's up to the players to win playoff games, just like they performed in the regular season.

Cranny, the central was horrible. When the playoffs started, we got rolled. Now we can't even compete in the Central. Read my post. I'm not blaming the whole thing on Mo. And he did a lot of good things. But he should have stayed in his lane in regards to the roster construction. History bears that out. All those empty seats don't lie about what the public thinks about Mo and Bills product.

You are correct, sir. Look at the empty seats. Even I am astonished by the horrible attendance we have witnessed this season. People are voting with their feet. The fans are participating in the so-called reset with their attitude about the goose who laid the golden egg.

The problem may be that the fans expect too much after all the successes of the 60s, 80s, as well as 2006 and 2011.
Look at the regular seasons of 2006 and 2011. The Cards weren't predicted to go all the way by any
respected baseball analysts. There probably should be a reset by fans who think the Cardinals can return
to the glory years of fans expecting the Cardinals to go deep into the playoffs and to the WS every season. The industry has changed with the salary lid being blown off by the big market teams. I hate to say this, but the best that can probably be expected is to make the playoffs every season and whatever happens in the playoffs simply happens. Tough to say, but probably true. How long has it really been since the Cardinals were favorites to be one of the two teams in the WS?

When 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs, simply getting in should be the bare minimum acceptable, not “the best that can probably be expected.”

I'll buy that, rat. It should be the bare minimum. But if you think the Cardinals will be favorites to get to the WS, I think you may be disappointed year after year.

No question. But if we're all agreed that making the playoffs is the bare minimum, and you miss them two years in a row, what's an appropriate repercussion?