This deadline should be buying and selling

[BrummerStealsHome]

Whatever we do, I hope it favors the long-term good over the near-term. The plan appears to be working. Stay on it.

[thetank2]

Whatever we do, I hope it favors the long-term good over the near-term. The plan appears to be working. Stay on it.

The best we can hope for is another SP like Fedde or a future SP. We don't need infielders and probably can't acquire a 25+ HR hitter that could start immediately.

[renostl]

20 years ago, the Cardinals could've gotten a decent haul for Fedde but orgs have wised up. I was hoping his trade value would stabilize or even increase come July, but his peripherals are poor. K/9 is considerably down, BB/9 is considerably up and, with that, his WHIP is inflated. Maybe the stooges in Colorado don't look at anything beyond ERA and they send over...*checks notes*...never mind. They have nothing of value.

IF a team wants Fedde he will not be their #1 or #2. They see him as a needed piece to get there.
Same with the majority of trades at the deadline for veteran players.

The team should always "buy" at the deadline. They're either buying for now or the future.

Agree. And with deals that we win, or at least make us better and not just cheaper.


Too many posters, want to just sell for the sake of selling even if we get nothing back but the proverbial PTBNL, because they are scared of looming free agencies or have FOMO.

Maybe the highest value play is to keep Fedde for another four months and maybe he wins a start or two in the playoffs. Unless we are trading him for a witt or holiday level prospect (which is impossible), then playoff wins are the goal. We can’t keep trading the present for the future or the future will never arrive. At some point, you just have to go for it and hopefully keep going for it Eight years out of 10.

IMO, the payroll is good enough shape to move forward with. I'd say zero subtractions are needed
Even the often talked Arenado doesn't hurt he just is a little over paid for a 1.5-3.0 WAR player.

Roster clarity and IDing its future doesn't hurt.

Fedde, at this time of no injury, seems odd to go forward with unless he is a thought for 2026.
The same with at least one of Hels or Matz, maybe both. We'll know more in July.

The thought has to be in acquiring a player that there is more information on than there was when that
player was drafted. Tampa thrives in this. The player's progress is the same as expected or better than it was on draft day, perhaps
even a player the Cardinals would have liked to have drafted.

[Carp4Cy]

Whatever we do, I hope it favors the long-term good over the near-term. The plan appears to be working. Stay on it.

The best we can hope for is another SP like Fedde or a future SP. We don't need infielders and probably can't acquire a 25+ HR hitter that could start immediately.

Can we not though? Rolen, McGwire, Holliday also Furcal as a switch hitting LO were all deadline deals.

[JDW]

It'd be gutsy to trade Helsley, but the return in prospects might be worth it. In this unlikely scenario, the Cards would need to also obtain a solid BP guy or 2 imo.
Is Crooks deemed ready for a look at the show? If so, Pages remains the Cards main C, with Crooks now up and Herrera also adding some C depth with Crooks, freeing up Pozo to be traded. Sure, Pozo doesn't have great value, but the C position holds value for all teams and a Catcher injury might make Pozo a somewhat attractive depth piece for a contending team, and he can swing the bat.
Burleson has decent value, around +8M last time I saw it. Put him in a friendlier hitting home field ballpark for a team that has a need at DH and/or 1B and he could be an attractive piece for somebody. I don't see the Cards doing this, but I also don't see a clear pathway to a starting position here likely for AB w/o injuries happening. Might be an opportunity for Burly to start everyday somewhere, aka potential win-win.
Then there's milb guys aging out w/o much opportunity here. Koperniak, Antico, Baker, etc. that could be part of a package.
Maybe Mikolas waives his NTC if you throw some money at him with a warmer/better fishing destination for him, lol, giving McGreevy, maybe Mathews some 2nd half opportunities.
I do agree with the OP's premise that both buying and selling could be done by the Cards this year, and w/o throwing in the towel, but would expect instead a more conservative don't rock the boat approach.

[Strummer Jones]

Whatever we do, I hope it favors the long-term good over the near-term. The plan appears to be working. Stay on it.

Yes. I'm usually one who wants an exciting deadline for STL, but we're in the fight and I don't want to sabotage that. We're doing good with young guys, and I want to stay competitive with these kids. The experience will be good for them win or lose. If they want to move a Fedde or Mikolas, I think that's fine. You can easily have a McGreevy take that spot.

If you want to trade Matz, I could also see that being ok. Especially if you land another long reliever/spot starter in that place. Or, depending on how the next few weeks goes, maybe a Roby or Graceffo to do that?

[renostl]

Whatever we do, I hope it favors the long-term good over the near-term. The plan appears to be working. Stay on it.

The best we can hope for is another SP like Fedde or a future SP. We don't need infielders and probably can't acquire a 25+ HR hitter that could start immediately.

Can we not though? Rolen, McGwire, Holliday also Furcal as a switch hitting LO were all deadline deals.

What would that kind of deal look like though?

In my view, the Cardinals, in order to receive much benefit in that kind of
deal would need to make a decision on a horse to bet on. Gorman is already on
the bench a lot. Walker is the player getting PT that needs more production. A CF with higher production
sure but Nootbaar could slide over easier than getting a CFer with high side production. A DH type also sure.
Currently Herrera gets a lot of that with the team giving Pages some commitment.

All for the idea, just think it requires a decision on Walker or Gorman for the idea to have any impact
at all for 2025 and 2026 with position players. Easily could be missing your idea.

[woofy25]

you will never see the value, Sonny has right now. You could get a haul Several top contenders who desperately could use a #1/#2. Helsley, he can get some talent back, teams desperate for closers.

YOu can also buy. this one or the other is asinine, but we have Mo'ron, so being creative isn't in the cards.

Sonny has no-trade he wouldn’t waive before the season, doubt he would now. On a good team and close to home, probably pretty content.

Buying and selling could still happen but probably lesser names.

+1

Gray isn't going anywhere, he made that clear just like WillyC.

Helsley definitely could go along w/Fedde and Matz of the Cardinals happen to slide.

I agree w/OP, they should look to be sellers (if they're out of it) and buyers if they can land a young piece for the future that C. Bloom wants.

I think Bloom will make these calls, not Mo.

JMO

How far back would the Cardinals have to be, to be considered out of it? They should trade Helsley and Fedde, regardless. It's not a WS contending team, in my view.

[JDW]

you will never see the value, Sonny has right now. You could get a haul Several top contenders who desperately could use a #1/#2. Helsley, he can get some talent back, teams desperate for closers.

YOu can also buy. this one or the other is asinine, but we have Mo'ron, so being creative isn't in the cards.

Sonny has no-trade he wouldn’t waive before the season, doubt he would now. On a good team and close to home, probably pretty content.

Buying and selling could still happen but probably lesser names.

+1

Gray isn't going anywhere, he made that clear just like WillyC.

Helsley definitely could go along w/Fedde and Matz of the Cardinals happen to slide.

I agree w/OP, they should look to be sellers (if they're out of it) and buyers if they can land a young piece for the future that C. Bloom wants.

I think Bloom will make these calls, not Mo.

JMO

How far back would the Cardinals have to be, to be considered out of it? They should trade Helsley and Fedde, regardless. It's not a WS contending team, in my view.

So even though it's not a contending team in your very understandable view, if the teams 10 games over .500 or something similar before the deadline, don't you have to reward the team by trying to improve the team? It's a tricky spot to be in for sure, but also a good potential problem to have.

[rockondlouie]

you will never see the value, Sonny has right now. You could get a haul Several top contenders who desperately could use a #1/#2. Helsley, he can get some talent back, teams desperate for closers.

YOu can also buy. this one or the other is asinine, but we have Mo'ron, so being creative isn't in the cards.

Sonny has no-trade he wouldn’t waive before the season, doubt he would now. On a good team and close to home, probably pretty content.

Buying and selling could still happen but probably lesser names.

+1

Gray isn't going anywhere, he made that clear just like WillyC.

Helsley definitely could go along w/Fedde and Matz of the Cardinals happen to slide.

I agree w/OP, they should look to be sellers (if they're out of it) and buyers if they can land a young piece for the future that C. Bloom wants.

I think Bloom will make these calls, not Mo.

JMO

How far back would the Cardinals have to be, to be considered out of it? They should trade Helsley and Fedde, regardless. It's not a WS contending team, in my view.

So even though it's not a contending team in your very understandable view, if the teams 10 games over .500 or something similar before the deadline, don't you have to reward the team by trying to improve the team? It's a tricky spot to be in for sure, but also a good potential problem to have.

At 8-10+ games over .500 in say mid July I'd think they look to add a bullpen piece and just let things play out.

Is this the best baseball move for the future not dealing Helsley or Fedde or Matz or ?????? No

But is this the best business move for BDWJr if he wants to keep fans coming? Yes

Stay tuned

[renostl]

you will never see the value, Sonny has right now. You could get a haul Several top contenders who desperately could use a #1/#2. Helsley, he can get some talent back, teams desperate for closers.

YOu can also buy. this one or the other is asinine, but we have Mo'ron, so being creative isn't in the cards.

Sonny has no-trade he wouldn’t waive before the season, doubt he would now. On a good team and close to home, probably pretty content.

Buying and selling could still happen but probably lesser names.

+1

Gray isn't going anywhere, he made that clear just like WillyC.

Helsley definitely could go along w/Fedde and Matz of the Cardinals happen to slide.

I agree w/OP, they should look to be sellers (if they're out of it) and buyers if they can land a young piece for the future that C. Bloom wants.

I think Bloom will make these calls, not Mo.

JMO

How far back would the Cardinals have to be, to be considered out of it? They should trade Helsley and Fedde, regardless. It's not a WS contending team, in my view.

So even though it's not a contending team in your very understandable view, if the teams 10 games over .500 or something similar before the deadline, don't you have to reward the team by trying to improve the team? It's a tricky spot to be in for sure, but also a good potential problem to have.

Attrition will continue to provide plenty of future payroll flexibility.

I think there is value in seeing that the team you play for attempts to win
vs playing for a seller and playing in front of the smaller attendance that it creates.

The miss IMO isn't an absolute. It's perception that the prospects impact
the team more than players they have or can be obtained differently.

[Carp4Cy]

Whatever we do, I hope it favors the long-term good over the near-term. The plan appears to be working. Stay on it.

The best we can hope for is another SP like Fedde or a future SP. We don't need infielders and probably can't acquire a 25+ HR hitter that could start immediately.

Can we not though? Rolen, McGwire, Holliday also Furcal as a switch hitting LO were all deadline deals.

What would that kind of deal look like though?

In my view, the Cardinals, in order to receive much benefit in that kind of
deal would need to make a decision on a horse to bet on. Gorman is already on
the bench a lot. Walker is the player getting PT that needs more production. A CF with higher production
sure but Nootbaar could slide over easier than getting a CFer with high side production. A DH type also sure.
Currently Herrera gets a lot of that with the team giving Pages some commitment.

All for the idea, just think it requires a decision on Walker or Gorman for the idea to have any impact
at all for 2025 and 2026 with position players. Easily could be missing your idea.

Good questions. If Robert were having a better season I'd like to see that trade get made. Given the Braves are falling out of the Race, I'd be happy with Marcel Ozuna, though that's more of an aging Berkman type acquisition than a Holliday in his prime type of pickup. Still could be a game changer at cleanup.

[JohnnyMO]

Is the 2025 team worse if Mikolas and Helsley are traded? I’d argue no. Arenado? Maybe a little worse for 2025 but better long term.

Selling without diminishing any chance they may have to make a run in 2025 is absolutely doable.

[woofy25]

you will never see the value, Sonny has right now. You could get a haul Several top contenders who desperately could use a #1/#2. Helsley, he can get some talent back, teams desperate for closers.

YOu can also buy. this one or the other is asinine, but we have Mo'ron, so being creative isn't in the cards.

Sonny has no-trade he wouldn’t waive before the season, doubt he would now. On a good team and close to home, probably pretty content.

Buying and selling could still happen but probably lesser names.

+1

Gray isn't going anywhere, he made that clear just like WillyC.

Helsley definitely could go along w/Fedde and Matz of the Cardinals happen to slide.

I agree w/OP, they should look to be sellers (if they're out of it) and buyers if they can land a young piece for the future that C. Bloom wants.

I think Bloom will make these calls, not Mo.

JMO

How far back would the Cardinals have to be, to be considered out of it? They should trade Helsley and Fedde, regardless. It's not a WS contending team, in my view.

So even though it's not a contending team in your very understandable view, if the teams 10 games over .500 or something similar before the deadline, don't you have to reward the team by trying to improve the team? It's a tricky spot to be in for sure, but also a good potential problem to have.

To improve the team they would need an impact player. A 4-5 starter or bench help is not what we're talking about. In that case, who would the Cardinals feel comfortable moving? They would have to deal a Quin Mathews or similar plus additional resources if they are going to get a MOTO bad or TORO starter. Trading Gorman isn't going to do it. Arenado has no value. Walker doesn't have enough value. Pallante doesn't have a ton of value. Nootbaar's value is probably at a low. And I don't think combining Pallante and Gorman, for example, gets them substance in return. So, they'd probably have to trade a Nootbaar and Mathews and someone else like a Bernal for a guy who's producing 35HRs or has a sub 3.00 ERA and high K rate.

That doesn't seem realistic to me with this team.