Attendance

[Ike Hammett]

So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.

Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club

“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!

Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.

You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!

That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.

They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.

Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.

[desertrat23]

So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.

Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club

“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!

Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.

You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!

That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.

They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.

Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.

BIG difference between a national park and a for-profit baseball team.

If DeWitt is so stinking poor and not making money, prove it. Open your books, Billy.

[ICCFIM2]

So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.

Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club

“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!

Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.

You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!

That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.

They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.

Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.

Unprofitable???? There are many reliable sources that have estimated the Cards operating profit is around $60M per year. Sports franchises valuations are outsized compared to their profits. But, the team does make money. Its also not just because what is around the ballpark. At this point given how unsafe downtown has become, you could argue they are profitable despite what is around the ballpark. Also using the Gateway Arch as an example of helping them. How many people go to the Arch and then to a baseball game on the same day?

[Monsieur De Treville]

So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.

Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club

“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!

Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.

You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!

That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.

They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.

Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.

BIG difference between a national park and a for-profit baseball team.

If DeWitt is so stinking poor and not making money, prove it. Open your books, Billy.

Of course he's making money. He has an estimated net worth of $4 billion and is now one of the 10 richest owners in baseball.

[butsir01]

DBack series had 30K+ crowds.

IF the team remains in contention AND BDWJr spends some money and adds at the deadline, then he might just get close to 2.5M.

Fun team, I've enjoyed every game I've been to this season.

When pigs fly, my friend.

You're right satch, BDWJr won't spend one thin dime even if the team is in contention.

Not even a Britt Burns?

[rockondlouie]

DBack series had 30K+ crowds.

IF the team remains in contention AND BDWJr spends some money and adds at the deadline, then he might just get close to 2.5M.

Fun team, I've enjoyed every game I've been to this season.

When pigs fly, my friend.

You're right satch, BDWJr won't spend one thin dime even if the team is in contention.

Not even a Britt Burns?

[Ike Hammett]

So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.

Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club

“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!

Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.

You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!

That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.

They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.

Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.

Unprofitable???? There are many reliable sources that have estimated the Cards operating profit is around $60M per year. Sports franchises valuations are outsized compared to their profits. But, the team does make money. Its also not just because what is around the ballpark. At this point given how unsafe downtown has become, you could argue they are profitable despite what is around the ballpark. Also using the Gateway Arch as an example of helping them. How many people go to the Arch and then to a baseball game on the same day?

I can buy $60 million in profit for the team in a year. That's not huge profits, that's not even an Ohtani, maybe a Juan Soto. On top of that, they have to pay taxes on their profits and split it amongst many owners of the ownership group. Is Mr. DeWitt even taking home Steven Matz or Erick Fedde money? Yes, a lot of money for us normal folks but that isn't really huge money AND attendance is down so it might not even be that much.

I consider that wetting the beak not some huge obscene rip off of the people that deserves constant harsh hate.

Downtown is very safe. You think it's Gaza here? Probably more likely to get hit by a drunk driver or a teen speeding playing on their phone in your neighborhood, assulted by your husband, get your car stolen by your teen and friends, kid get beat up by a school bully, accidentally get shot cleaning your gun or kids goofing off with them than any random act of anything downtown. And I'm not sure but I think the city and governments pay for tons of cops and security the Cards don't have to cover along with infrastructure and maintenance type stuff etc. that leads to any profits.

If they spent all that money to buy the team, build the stadium, pay all the players and workers, maintain it all on there own, they would be out of business. Certainly not worth the small profits you stated.

[desertrat23]

So it's not worth going to watch a team that's 32-24 so far?

90 percent of the fan base lives far from STL. Me- 800 miles. What are we supposed to do to show fan support in your estimation.

Move to downtown St. Louis, go to all the games, party at ballpark village, have tons of fun rooting for the club with other like minded people in baseball heaven and be loyal to what provides it. Some of us who have are living the best way any baseball fan can.

The least you can probably do is not bash on the club

“Loyal to what provides it?”

DO NOT QUESTION DEAR LEADER!!!

Don't try to frame that as some kind of a cult thing. That's ridiculous! The Cardinals support the community and their fans just as much (if not more) than they get in return. Busch Stadium and the surrounding facilities is my favorite place on earth and I have been to just about all the places worth going to. Nothing wrong with tipping the cap to the people who built it and run it. THEY DO IT FOR US! The least we can do is appreciate it, support it and be loyal to the folks that provide it.

It's one of the big problems with society, you spoiled rotten entitled brats are never happy and too cool to acknowledge anything, even when it is what you want and ask for. Don't do that, say thanks and have fun, try to get along and support the community. You're completely illogical.

You are an idiot plainly and simply.

“THEY DO IT FOR US!”

Yes the fact that their $100 million investment is now worth 2.5 BILLION certainly proves that ownership is only “in it for the fans.”

What a dolt!

That doesn't even beat the S&P 500, it was $150 they bought the team for.

They bought the team for $150 million and almost immediately sold 4 parking garages for $75 million.
Owning the Cardinals has been extremely lucrative for this ownership group.

Break it down, just how lucrative is it for them? I will argue the Cardinals and most if not all teams would go out of business if what you state is true. If the Cards went at it alone baseball would look a lot different, it would look like the minor leagues or the Charles Comisky 1920s White Sox. Even the Indians from the movie Major League would have gone out of business. Today the operation is so unprofitable they constantly need bailouts and other infrastructure type money from governments to even stay open. Like the gateway arch national park around the corner, just how profitable is that? They build, maintain and operate that kind of stuff for the people and fans to enjoy, to have a pleasant and exciting place to have fun, create jobs, look nice etc.

More like a private/ public partnership these days to improve the quality of life for everyone. Mr. DeWitt might wet his beak some but he isn't Rachel Phelps from Major League.

BIG difference between a national park and a for-profit baseball team.

If DeWitt is so stinking poor and not making money, prove it. Open your books, Billy.

Of course he's making money. He has an estimated net worth of $4 billion and is now one of the 10 richest owners in baseball.

Oh no question. Which makes one think he could pump a little more into the product to ease fan tension.

[hmoss859]

There is no anti message to the players, its to the management and ownership.

Duh!

[NL Fan]

I think it was Randy Karraker who said that the average spend of a fan in the ballpark is $50 (he didn't break that down). So if 1 million people less show up, that's $50 million less.

I have a lot of criticism of the DeWitt's, but I gave them 3 years' pass for Covid, for the bankruptcy of their TV broadcaster, and for the stadium in Florida (basically a boondoggle).

Those excuses are over. BUT...

2025 is a rebuild year, and that's great--it was desperately needed. The organization is pouring money and energy and outside voices (not just Bloom) into restructuring and strenghtening their minors and development model, which was a mess. I'm hoping that it's not too little, too late. But I appreciate it. And going outside the Cardinals when it makes sense to do so, rather than 100% promotions from within. That's what the Rockies do and it has not served them well.

So I'll give them 2025, they need to see...what they need. And they were NEVER going to be making impactful moves with Mo leaving and Bloom waiting to come in. So 2026 we've got a newly developed team without lingering question marks. We've got a new POBO. The TV is basically settled (streaming rights not so much). I believe the Florida stadium is resolved. All the savings from 2025.

NO MORE EXCUSES

Then again isn't 2026 the end of the CBA?

[Cranny]

I think it was Randy Karraker who said that the average spend of a fan in the ballpark is $50 (he didn't break that down). So if 1 million people less show up, that's $50 million less.

I have a lot of criticism of the DeWitt's, but I gave them 3 years' pass for Covid, for the bankruptcy of their TV broadcaster, and for the stadium in Florida (basically a boondoggle).

Those excuses are over. BUT...

2025 is a rebuild year, and that's great--it was desperately needed. The organization is pouring money and energy and outside voices (not just Bloom) into restructuring and strenghtening their minors and development model, which was a mess. I'm hoping that it's not too little, too late. But I appreciate it. And going outside the Cardinals when it makes sense to do so, rather than 100% promotions from within. That's what the Rockies do and it has not served them well.

So I'll give them 2025, they need to see...what they need. And they were NEVER going to be making impactful moves with Mo leaving and Bloom waiting to come in. So 2026 we've got a newly developed team without lingering question marks. We've got a new POBO. The TV is basically settled (streaming rights not so much). I believe the Florida stadium is resolved. All the savings from 2025.

NO MORE EXCUSES

Then again isn't 2026 the end of the CBA?

And if they win the Central this season?

[AtillaTheBlue1]

Cardinals 32-24, 3 games out of first place and 19-8 at home: Averaging 29,444 and down 7,609 per game YOY
Rockies: 9-47, 25 games out of first place and 6-22 at home: Averaging 26,635 and only down 363 per game YOY

Baseball overall is up 436 per game YOY.

We are 13th in average per game, which would be the worst ranking we’ve had in like at least 30 years.

Averaging 29,444

Paid attendance, it's not butt in seats. New cardinal riter for one of the media places, tried to sell 36K in stands, lol, there was 19-20K tops. Her picturer showed sections and sections with 10 people in whole section

[Cranny]

I guess some forget that the Cards have won 90 or more games in 3 out of the last 5 full seasons?

Doesn't make me want to go to the stadium more or less. The only time I have gone to a game in person in the last 10 years is if tickets were free and they were in the all-inclusive.

I used to have a season ticket share with friends, and we all just got tired of all the hassle involved with driving, parking, lines to get in, long lines at all bathrooms, missing an entire half inning to get food or drink because the lines are so long, waiting forever in traffic just to get out of the parking lot or garage.

pass

To each his own.

[cardstatman]

Surfed the internet to get these numbers:

In 2024, the St. Louis Cardinals had an operating income of $6.7 million. Their revenue for the year was $373 million which is $16M less than 2019. It seems unlikely their revenue will increase much in 2025.

2017 Revenue: $319M; Operating Income: $40M; Player Expenses $165M
2018 Revenue: $356M; Operating Income; $40M; Player Expenses $176M
2019 Revenue: $389M: Operating Income; $70M; Player Expenses $182M
2020 Revenue: $109M; Operating Income: -$60M; Player Expenses $88M
2021 Revenue: $287M; Operating Income: -$31M; Player Expenses $191M
2022 Revenue: $358M; Operating Income: $43M; Player Expenses $174M
2023 Revenue: $372M; Operating Income: $57M; Player Expenses $169M
2024 Revenue: $373M; Operating Income: $6.7M; Player Expenses $219M

Past 8 years: Revenue: $2563M; Operating Income: $166M; Player Expenses $1364M

They are valued at $2.5B even though that is roughly equal to their entire revenue for the past 8 years. Clearly, their value is based on a seller's market rather than projected income.

[Vinegar Ben]

Lack of attendance this year in my view is not against the players but against the ownership and managements poor handling of the club and prospects in the minors constantly trading away top talent for mediocre players.

[ScotchMIrish]

Team ownership and management have taken 3M fans walking through the gates every year for granted for far too many years and now it is coming back to bite them. This is coming from someone who used to vehemently defend this ownership and management group as well. For the price of two of us going to a game I can have all my friends over, cook for them all and supply the beer as well for the same cost(if not less) and watch it on my giant TV.

Matheny's final full season we averaged 42,000 per game. He got fired with a winning record. If you are saying ownership had an entitlement mentality I would agree.

I do think the DH and universal schedule have played a role.