Trade Kyrou or Not?

[STL fan in MN]

Depends on the return.
We need a big human in return. 6'4 220. If we can got a Tom Wilson type for Kyrou--id be down.
Id also entertain getting rid of Buch.
I love most other forwards

That’d sure be nice but let’s just say I find the odds of a Tom Wilson like player being available and the other GM wanting to trade that player for Kyrou, or even Kyrou as the main return piece dubious at best.

[STL fan in MN]

Folks be lovin' Holloway (63 pts, +21) but be hatin' Kyrou (70 pts, +23).

I be lovin' both.

He didn't shine in the play-offs. I think that accounts for the gas. His measly 3 goals in 7 games makes him trade bait. Never mind he lost his line partner, the one that with him, powered the historic spring push to GET from the weeds back IN to the play-offs. He's jag now.

Because Holloway tries hard and makes $2.3M while nearly matching the production of Kyrou, who’s soft, lacks compete and makes $8.125M.

So no, Kyrou isn’t a “jag”. He’s our leading goal scorer. It’d really only make sense to trade him for a very particular player. I highly doubt that player will be available. But given Kyrou’s deficiencies, deficiencies which line up horribly for playoff hockey, I think it makes sense to at least explore the options available.

He did quite well as I recall in 21-22 playoffs, so while the Jets outmuscled him, do you thing the same would have happened in the next series? Or what if we played Edm and all their speed? You think a guy like Kyrou might be useful there?

I bet Kyrou would likely be more effective against a team like Edmonton. But we’d have to make the Conference Finals (or be the wildcard placed in the Pacific bracket) to ever play Edmonton. Ideally, we have players that are effective against any other type of team though as we need to be able to beat those teams to ever play Edmonton. It takes versatile, hard nosed players to be able to win 4 rounds in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Sure, but if you recall in ‘19 we had different folks doing it in different series. He scored a goal and led the team in shots in Game 7, that 1.6 seconds had nothing to do with him. WTF was the star in Jets series, maybe Kyrou or Thomas or whoever would have been against Stars. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water

That’s a fair point. Thus why I’d only want to trade Kyrou for a pretty narrow type of player. I have absolutely no desire to just get rid of the team’s leading scorer at any cost.

[Bob39]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

[Harry York 37]

Kyrou went from a plus ten to a minus thirty-eight the year after the ASG.
That... has gotta be goddanged historic for a one year drop.
A 48 point swing.

His line pair changed significantly in the time frame. This year with Holloway he was lights out. Blues would be stupid to trade a young perennial 30 goal scorer who has a great line when Holloway comes back. I am glad people on this forum are not the GM for the Blues.

BOLD: You fail to mention that the Blues went from a 109-point team to an 81-point team.

ITALIC: Over the same two seasons, ROR went from +11 to -21 in 53 games with Blues. Projected over 82 games, that's -32, making his swing -43. Same logic apply to him? Faulk went from +41 to to -4, a swing of -45. Krug from +23 to -26, a swing of 49. The whole team tanked.

If ROR missed a third of a season from repeated injuries, you can bet your mortgage he was playing hurt for a few dozen more. That man comes to play 200 foot ice hockey every single day. To mention he and JK in the same sentence is ...apples and oranges.

Bottom lines-
Kyrou is a phenomenal offensive threat—few teams have a weapon like him. He is capable of scoring 2-3 goals on any given shift.


also,
He is VERY often, a cringe-worthy Pansy at the opponent's Blue Line. He is where momentum and GUTS go to commit public suicide,


I don't give a chit if he never throws a hard body check, I want him to compete for pucks ... like a 196 pound six foot one 27 year old professional ice hockey player. He took a giant hit in Game two. So WHAT? It was legal and he did not go in for any protocols- he just left his balls on the ice, like he has done so very very very many times before,
He plays Embarrassing Ice Hockey at the most crucial times. I am happy a professional NHL announcer had the temerity to acknowledge it because too many people pull their blinkers on tight and live in willful ignorance.
I cannot believe DA is happy to be paying $8,125,000.00 dollars a year to see his team and the fans treated to such ...pitiful displays whenever JK is spooked, or pouting.
That's all.

New GM Alexander Steen played through herniated discs in his back and multiple concussions. He left his ego at the door when Chief asked him to drop to the fourth line and be a shut down Center. That is what champions do. Moving forward, this team will be built to the vision Steen and Monty have for it. I just can't envision a world where a roller hockey diva will be a part of an Alexander Steen team. Come spring, this a man's game - battle and compete - and I've yet to see anything in Kyrou's history that tells me he can play that game. Every team in the league knows it. Just one good lick and he's done.

Not at all to diss Steener, his type of player is a must to win in the postseason, tough guy great grinder but, Steen 91 15 21 36 -8 ....15 goals in 91 career playoff games.... as i said Kyrou has 10g in his 19 playoff games. You can like it or not but a Kyrou type of player is a must A) if you want to first make the playoffs B) then to score in the playoffs.
Yes its also true that this playoff series Kyrou wasnt aggressive enough although 3 goals scored tied for 1st on the Blues. Last summer Kyrou added around 10lbs of muscle he will need to continue that this summer and he will

That fourth line- with Steen parking his ego for the sake of the team, made the WTF line look "above average" by comparison.
THAT is what wins playoff hockey games, not "Roller Hockey Divas" (well-played Bud White).
I don't care how many PP goals he scores. He is NOT been a playmaker in any playoff series due to his weak mind, lack of compete, and sense of entitlement.

Get a decent return and let some other team watch him coast in their playoff game sevens.

made the WTF line look "above average" by comparison.

Not really true either unfortunately:

'18-'19 Steen/Sunny/Barbie = 9gs in 26 playoff games
'24-'25 WTF line = 6gs in 7 playoff games....

It is most certainly true, you just can't read your own response.
The 2019 Fourth line played 26 playoff games over two months.

Steen played in all of them.Barbs and Sunny each missed one game.

The WTF line won a great seven game battle.
The Barbs, Sunny, Steener line won the whole goddanged War.

[Harry York 37]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Come on... watch the games.

It's more a lamentable lack of guts than laziness, but he works them both when he isn't in the right mood.

[Bluesfan1978]

He’s not lazy. There’s not a player on the team that’s lazy. But it will require effort to add more size and to try and improve at the physical side of the game. I personally don’t think he needs to worry about making hits. It’s using his speed to battle for position, taking a hit but keeping the puck to skate with and make a play. Driving wide with the puck and forcing the other team to scramble, pinch players off against the boards when they try to get past him. Make it hard on the other team.

[Harry York 37]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Let me ask you this-

When was the last time you heard a network Announcer call an NHL player out on National TV for a lack of compete... in a game seven playoff match?

Those of us who watch closely were surprised he actually broadcast that bit of news, but understood exactly where it came from.

Were you not embarrassed?
Did it not make you curious?

[bud white]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Let me ask you this-

When was the last time you heard a network Announcer call an NHL player out on National TV for a lack of compete... in a game seven playoff match?

Those of us who watch closely were surprised he actually broadcast that bit of news, but understood exactly where it came from.

Were you not embarrassed?
Did it not make you curious?

Hey Harry ... Was this on the TBS broadcast? I was watching the FanDuel feed so I missed this. Who said it and what did they say?

[TheJackBurton]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

I wouldn't call him lazy, as it takes a lot of grit, tenacity, and drive to become a professional athlete, and stay there.

However, he is paid 8 million to do exactly that, score goals. Walker is essentially paid a million to play hard, hit as much as he can, and if at all possible chip in some goals.

When the guy making less is far more noticeable on the ice than the guy making 8 million, that's not a skill issue, it is 100% an effort issue.

[STL fan in MN]

He’s not lazy. There’s not a player on the team that’s lazy. But it will require effort to add more size and to try and improve at the physical side of the game. I personally don’t think he needs to worry about making hits. It’s using his speed to battle for position, taking a hit but keeping the puck to skate with and make a play. Driving wide with the puck and forcing the other team to scramble, pinch players off against the boards when they try to get past him. Make it hard on the other team.

Agree with the 2nd half of your paragraph. I give zero $hits if he tries to improve his physicality or tries to make more hits. That’s not his game and that’s fine. What isn’t fine IMO is his unwillingness to take hits. There were numerous times in the Jets series where he would have the puck along the boards and a Jets player would just come and take it from him with little to no effort on his hard to keep it, battle for it, make a play to a teammate etc. It’d just be a turnover and the Jets would take the puck the other direction. THAT is what I want to see out of him.

ROR won the Conn Smythe with 11 hits over 26 playoff games in 2019. Did anybody question ROR back then? Nope. Even though he hardly ever throws checks throughout his entire career. But he knows how to take a check. Make a play even when he knows he’s about to get hit. Knows how to protect the puck and maintain possession even when someone comes and hits him and tries to separate him from the puck.

I’m not asking for Kyrou to be ROR level of good at taking a check but at least good enough to where it’s not blatantly obvious he has to be one of the worst in the league at it would be a start.

[STL fan in MN]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Let me ask you this-

When was the last time you heard a network Announcer call an NHL player out on National TV for a lack of compete... in a game seven playoff match?

Those of us who watch closely were surprised he actually broadcast that bit of news, but understood exactly where it came from.

Were you not embarrassed?
Did it not make you curious?

Hey Harry ... Was this on the TBS broadcast? I was watching the FanDuel feed so I missed this. Who said it and what did they say?

It was Eddie Olczyk on the TBS feed. Called out the same things a lot of us here are calling out.

[Harry York 37]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Let me ask you this-

When was the last time you heard a network Announcer call an NHL player out on National TV for a lack of compete... in a game seven playoff match?

Those of us who watch closely were surprised he actually broadcast that bit of news, but understood exactly where it came from.

Were you not embarrassed?
Did it not make you curious?

Hey Harry ... Was this on the TBS broadcast? I was watching the FanDuel feed so I missed this. Who said it and what did they say?

It was Eddie Olczyk on the TBS feed. Called out the same things a lot of us here are calling out.

Thanks, MN, I forgot who said it, but was happy that somebody had the honesty and guts to call like it was.

[Bob39]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Let me ask you this-

When was the last time you heard a network Announcer call an NHL player out on National TV for a lack of compete... in a game seven playoff match?

Those of us who watch closely were surprised he actually broadcast that bit of news, but understood exactly where it came from.

Were you not embarrassed?
Did it not make you curious?

Hey Harry ... Was this on the TBS broadcast? I was watching the FanDuel feed so I missed this. Who said it and what did they say?

It was Eddie Olczyk on the TBS feed. Called out the same things a lot of us here are calling out.

Network announcers say dumb stuff all the time, former players included. Among the people who fool themselves into thinking that their success was due to effort more than genetics, former athletes are at the top of the list.

[skilles]

lol imagine sitting on the couch being embarrassed by a professional athlete.

lol the culture we live in.

[STL fan in MN]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

That’s fine but a player needs to work on his weaknesses too. You can’t just always work on your strengths. Do that and you might end up with a fatal flaw in your game…sort of like how Kyrou is an absolute powerhouse of a race car but is completely neutralized when the game gets physical and the opposition targets him along the boards.

And if/when Walker starts getting paid $8.125M/year, I’ll start asking for 30 goals out of him.

[STL fan in MN]

The problem with Kyrou has always been that people think they can clearly tell what parts of hockey (any sport) come down to effort and what parts are natural ability. They assume that Kyrou's speed and skill are just natural ability while Walker's physical play is effort. It is just not that simple. Kyrou's speed and skill are a combination of genetics and time and effort put in to refine those skills. The exact same thing is true of Walker's physical game. Yet no one every says "why doesn't Walker try harder and score 30 goals."

You have no idea if Kyrou is lazy. He might be the hardest worker in the team. It takes an incredible amount of effort to develop the ability to become one of the fastest skaters in the league. It also takes a lot of natural ability. Just like it takes a lot of genetic fortune to have the build to throw the body around all day. That also takes a lot of work. It is never just one thing.

Let me ask you this-

When was the last time you heard a network Announcer call an NHL player out on National TV for a lack of compete... in a game seven playoff match?

Those of us who watch closely were surprised he actually broadcast that bit of news, but understood exactly where it came from.

Were you not embarrassed?
Did it not make you curious?

Hey Harry ... Was this on the TBS broadcast? I was watching the FanDuel feed so I missed this. Who said it and what did they say?

It was Eddie Olczyk on the TBS feed. Called out the same things a lot of us here are calling out.

Network announcers say dumb stuff all the time, former players included. Among the people who fool themselves into thinking that their success was due to effort more than genetics, former athletes are at the top of the list.

Yeah, they do. And sometimes they’re right. I for one thought Eddie was spot on this time.