Fedde was a 1 year wonder-Everyone on CT bought the [nonsense] hook-line and sinker.

[renostl]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Trade was a good one TRL no way BDWJr was paying T. Edman $9.5M or extending him.

Fedde's had four outstanding starts, two clunkers.

He'll bring back a solid prospect in a few months.

Edman is worth every penny, he is a winning player.

Donovan is not the total player that Edman is.

There's a bunch of slugs on this team not remotely equal to Edman, such as Burleson, Gorman, Saggesse, Walker, Siani

Scott and Winn have a chance to be really good, the others, not so much.

Edman was a perfect fit.....for the Dodgers, not here at $9.5M.

Donovan/28 yrs old (.286 .366 .416 .782/120 OPS+) is a better player than Edman/30 yrs old in a few weeks (.262 .316 .413 .729/101 OPS+) at almost $7M less. I'd take Donny 100 out of 100 times over Edman.

But agree w/your "slugs" except for Gorman, I'm not ready to throw the towel in on him just yet.

Edman’s .243 average and .284 OBP would be the lowest average and OBP of his career. They have him hitting in the middle of the order (3-5th) more than anywhere else though, so SLG% is important there.

Not sure how anyone can think he's a better player than Donny who keeps getting better and better at a third of the salary.

When Tommy's sitting at 10 HR's in July that slg% will be back where it belongs in the low .400's.

+1 it’s hilarious some people think he has suddenly evolved into a slugger

I'm a decent TE fan.
It's irrelevant as it is to say Fedde is some superior trade chip and cost $2 million less.
What does either player bring back today if traded and the LAD were letting TE's contract
run out like Feddes. IMO, without extensive debate, it's a similar return.

TE was phased out in StL. right or wrong. Done deal. VS, BD, MW makes that choice sound.
The same business model does phase out Donovan though too. We'll see what occurs.

Edman wouldnt bring back as much as fedde now that he has a 70 million dollar contract. Only a team with a massive payroll would take on that contract for a sub.300 OBP utility man other teams know hes not suddenly a slugger and will end up around his career norms. The dodgers would have to eat some of that contract for another team to take him and Edman was never a player who would bring back a top prospect anyway. Fedde isn’t going to bring back a top prospect either neither player would.

Lots of IF's here.
I think the situation though is if TE were to have not been traded at the TD then maybe he's trade in the off season or
at this trade deadline. In either scenario he doesn't have that money attached he'd be like trading Fedde.
Today none of this matters anymore. Now it's either trade Fedde or sign him.

[Ozziesfan41]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Trade was a good one TRL no way BDWJr was paying T. Edman $9.5M or extending him.

Fedde's had four outstanding starts, two clunkers.

He'll bring back a solid prospect in a few months.

Edman is worth every penny, he is a winning player.

Donovan is not the total player that Edman is.

There's a bunch of slugs on this team not remotely equal to Edman, such as Burleson, Gorman, Saggesse, Walker, Siani

Scott and Winn have a chance to be really good, the others, not so much.

Edman was a perfect fit.....for the Dodgers, not here at $9.5M.

Donovan/28 yrs old (.286 .366 .416 .782/120 OPS+) is a better player than Edman/30 yrs old in a few weeks (.262 .316 .413 .729/101 OPS+) at almost $7M less. I'd take Donny 100 out of 100 times over Edman.

But agree w/your "slugs" except for Gorman, I'm not ready to throw the towel in on him just yet.

Edman’s .243 average and .284 OBP would be the lowest average and OBP of his career. They have him hitting in the middle of the order (3-5th) more than anywhere else though, so SLG% is important there.

Not sure how anyone can think he's a better player than Donny who keeps getting better and better at a third of the salary.

When Tommy's sitting at 10 HR's in July that slg% will be back where it belongs in the low .400's.

+1 it’s hilarious some people think he has suddenly evolved into a slugger

I'm a decent TE fan.
It's irrelevant as it is to say Fedde is some superior trade chip and cost $2 million less.
What does either player bring back today if traded and the LAD were letting TE's contract
run out like Feddes. IMO, without extensive debate, it's a similar return.

TE was phased out in StL. right or wrong. Done deal. VS, BD, MW makes that choice sound.
The same business model does phase out Donovan though too. We'll see what occurs.

Edman wouldnt bring back as much as fedde now that he has a 70 million dollar contract. Only a team with a massive payroll would take on that contract for a sub.300 OBP utility man other teams know hes not suddenly a slugger and will end up around his career norms. The dodgers would have to eat some of that contract for another team to take him and Edman was never a player who would bring back a top prospect anyway. Fedde isn’t going to bring back a top prospect either neither player would.

Lots of IF's here.
I think the situation though is if TE were to have not been traded at the TD then maybe he's trade in the off season or
at this trade deadline. In either scenario he doesn't have that money attached he'd be like trading Fedde.
Today none of this matters anymore. Now it's either trade Fedde or sign him.

He should have been traded in the offseason so I’m in the trade him camp

[RichieRichSTL]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Trade was a good one TRL no way BDWJr was paying T. Edman $9.5M or extending him.

Fedde's had four outstanding starts, two clunkers.

He'll bring back a solid prospect in a few months.

He doesn't have sustained season over season success. You are assuming that he keeps this ratio. I doubt he becomes disaster bad, but he is likely to regress from last season.

He's been solid RR since his return to MLB:

37 GS
3.51 ERA
1.19 WHiP

I'm not saying he'd bring back a Top 100 prospect but he'll being back something of value (as along as C. Bloom makes the trade).

Overall solid, but I am not talking about what is mostly last year.

He regressed a little after he got trade but his Cardinals numbers for last season were still very strong. This season his WIP, WHIP, K/BB, ERA are all significantly worse. It is still only 6 games in and two (bleep) starts have skewed the numbers. We balance this out with 4 QS. Still
as many have noted, his FIP is concerning.

While it is disingenuous to ignore his 4 QS, we can just pretend there is no cause for concern. His two awful starts have come against two of the better offenses in the league. His 4 QS have come against teams 3 bottom 10 offense and one middle of the road one.

Look, I want to be proven wrong, but like we found with Mikolas meh pitches that come back and do well in their first season back can face significant regression in thee 2nd season.

He only has a short history of being good and a much longer history of being mediocre to bad so, let's pretend he's proven. We've seen time and again a player has 1 career year and never approaches that level of success again. You cant just dismiss the possibility that he will digress significantly from last season.

Actually he didn't regress at all after being acquired by the Cardinals.

After his first game as a Cardinal vs the Cubs (5 IP/ 5 ER) in his final 9 Cardinals starts he had a very good 3.20 ERA.

His FiP will always be "concerning" since he's not a strikeout pitcher.

Again, he won't bring back a Top 100 prospect but the return should still be solid.

And you're right, no one knows if he'll regress just as no one knows if he'll pitch great until dealt............time will tell.

If the Cardinals were a contender this would be simple: roll with it and hope he gives you a solid chance to win most times out.

I think Mo decided especially since he was blocked from moving certain players with a NTC and only was able to get rid of option players and free agents that he would pick up a small piece or so and just roll with it in a wide open division. He probably wasn't wowed with the return, so...

In any case, as Mikolas has shown players with so-so stuff, if they learn how to pitch overseas can come back with some good success. However, Mikolas has shown that can be offset somewhat if the league has had time to adjust. Mo is betting that if the time comes to 'sell' him, he won't have regressed too much. Many fans are like he is risking a Mikolas like regression, where his value is damaged more than it is solidified.

We will see.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

[Ozziesfan41]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

+1 I’m not a Mo fan but I can acknowledge when he does something good. It was a good trade

[AZ_Cardsfan]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

+1 I’m not a Mo fan but I can acknowledge when he does something good. It was a good trade

I am neither a fan of or hater of Mo. He works under limitations from ownership and sometimes their decisions are business model based versus baseball decisions. In general within his restrictions I think Mo has done an OK job. People here would be surprised to find EVERY GM seems to be hated by their fan base.

In this case the only reason they still have Fedde and Helsley is ticket sales IMO. Pretty sure it isn't working out but that is what I suspect.

[Ozziesfan41]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

+1 I’m not a Mo fan but I can acknowledge when he does something good. It was a good trade

I am neither a fan of or hater of Mo. He works under limitations from ownership and sometimes their decisions are business model based versus baseball decisions. In general within his restrictions I think Mo has done an OK job. People here would be surprised to find EVERY GM seems to be hated by their fan base.

In this case the only reason they still have Fedde and Helsley is ticket sales IMO. Pretty sure it isn't working out but that is what I suspect.

Yea it was more of mos hope and prayer in keeping them. They should have been traded when their value was at its highest instead of keeping them it’s only going now

[renostl]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

TE was on a 2 yr contract.
LAD upped it before they had to.
There's like $2 million difference in
What those 2 contracts cost. If neither
Player is/was a part of the future then the
Only difference is what some team might be
willing to give up for one vs the other, negligible IMO,
not the $2 million in Bills pocket.

[JuanAgosto]

Mozeliak loves him some one year wonders. Almost as much as his bow ties and sweaters.

[Bully4you]

Many on CT said trade Fedde during the off season despite your over generalization.

Nearly every stinking CTer sang his praise.
Glad to rid themselves of Edman
for this overrated piece of dung.

Not true. I'd say most said Mo should trade him.

Most here claimed he was a solid #2.
I dispute that.
Also, most here said Gray was an Ace.
I disputed that as well.
Gray is really Grey and is too old.
2023 ain't happening again for Grey
and neither is 2024 for Fedde.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

TE was on a 2 yr contract.
LAD upped it before they had to.
There's like $2 million difference in
What those 2 contracts cost. If neither
Player is/was a part of the future then the
Only difference is what some team might be
willing to give up for one vs the other, negligible IMO,
not the $2 million in Bills pocket.

You are right. They had him another year I thought he was a FA in 2025. My mistake.

I would still posit that STL has multiple players in the positions Tommy plays that are far less expensive and not that far behind in production while Fedde is not someone they have a lot of replacements for.

SS - Winn. No he isn't as productive as Edman, yet, but far less expensive.
2B - Donovan, Gorman, Saggese and eventually Weatherholt. I expect at this rate Donovan is getting a big raise but he is a much more threatening bat and should be kept.
CF - Looks like Scott is keeping that.

Edmans true value lies in playing SS. If he is a starting SS he is an excellent defender and his bat was about league average 101 OPS+. Very valuable to a team needing a SS and not a dead spot in the lineup. And one with deep enough pockets to afford what was a league average hitter for his price. Cue the Dodgers.

His break out with the Dodgers is stunning. I did not see this coming and I really doubt the Dodgers did either. An incredible step up if he maintains it.

In any case the trade at the time was one in STL favor. We traded a guy who wasn't worth it to us for a guy who is worth it to us. Even now Fedde is well worth the price we pay.

If I ran the team I would have traded Fedde last December when everyone was looking at his season long stats and wondering if this was sustainable. I believe DeWitt and others were afraid of backlash if they actually DID a rebuild. So they sit in the middle again.

Lastly some (not saying you did) will whine about me caring about DeWitts money. I do not care in the least. But I am a realist and understand the team will spend to a set budget. And they must maximize production versus cost. I still believe they made the right decision with that trade and doubt Edman would be this productive on the Cardinals.

[rockondlouie]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Trade was a good one TRL no way BDWJr was paying T. Edman $9.5M or extending him.

Fedde's had four outstanding starts, two clunkers.

He'll bring back a solid prospect in a few months.

He doesn't have sustained season over season success. You are assuming that he keeps this ratio. I doubt he becomes disaster bad, but he is likely to regress from last season.

He's been solid RR since his return to MLB:

37 GS
3.51 ERA
1.19 WHiP

I'm not saying he'd bring back a Top 100 prospect but he'll being back something of value (as along as C. Bloom makes the trade).

Overall solid, but I am not talking about what is mostly last year.

He regressed a little after he got trade but his Cardinals numbers for last season were still very strong. This season his WIP, WHIP, K/BB, ERA are all significantly worse. It is still only 6 games in and two (bleep) starts have skewed the numbers. We balance this out with 4 QS. Still
as many have noted, his FIP is concerning.

While it is disingenuous to ignore his 4 QS, we can just pretend there is no cause for concern. His two awful starts have come against two of the better offenses in the league. His 4 QS have come against teams 3 bottom 10 offense and one middle of the road one.

Look, I want to be proven wrong, but like we found with Mikolas meh pitches that come back and do well in their first season back can face significant regression in thee 2nd season.

He only has a short history of being good and a much longer history of being mediocre to bad so, let's pretend he's proven. We've seen time and again a player has 1 career year and never approaches that level of success again. You cant just dismiss the possibility that he will digress significantly from last season.

Actually he didn't regress at all after being acquired by the Cardinals.

After his first game as a Cardinal vs the Cubs (5 IP/ 5 ER) in his final 9 Cardinals starts he had a very good 3.20 ERA.

His FiP will always be "concerning" since he's not a strikeout pitcher.

Again, he won't bring back a Top 100 prospect but the return should still be solid.

And you're right, no one knows if he'll regress just as no one knows if he'll pitch great until dealt............time will tell.

If the Cardinals were a contender this would be simple: roll with it and hope he gives you a solid chance to win most times out.

I think Mo decided especially since he was blocked from moving certain players with a NTC and only was able to get rid of option players and free agents that he would pick up a small piece or so and just roll with it in a wide open division. He probably wasn't wowed with the return, so...

In any case, as Mikolas has shown players with so-so stuff, if they learn how to pitch overseas can come back with some good success. However, Mikolas has shown that can be offset somewhat if the league has had time to adjust. Mo is betting that if the time comes to 'sell' him, he won't have regressed too much. Many fans are like he is risking a Mikolas like regression, where his value is damaged more than it is solidified.

We will see.

[renostl]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

TE was on a 2 yr contract.
LAD upped it before they had to.
There's like $2 million difference in
What those 2 contracts cost. If neither
Player is/was a part of the future then the
Only difference is what some team might be
willing to give up for one vs the other, negligible IMO,
not the $2 million in Bills pocket.

You are right. They had him another year I thought he was a FA in 2025. My mistake.

I would still posit that STL has multiple players in the positions Tommy plays that are far less expensive and not that far behind in production while Fedde is not someone they have a lot of replacements for.

SS - Winn. No he isn't as productive as Edman, yet, but far less expensive.
2B - Donovan, Gorman, Saggese and eventually Weatherholt. I expect at this rate Donovan is getting a big raise but he is a much more threatening bat and should be kept.
CF - Looks like Scott is keeping that.

Edmans true value lies in playing SS. If he is a starting SS he is an excellent defender and his bat was about league average 101 OPS+. Very valuable to a team needing a SS and not a dead spot in the lineup. And one with deep enough pockets to afford what was a league average hitter for his price. Cue the Dodgers.

His break out with the Dodgers is stunning. I did not see this coming and I really doubt the Dodgers did either. An incredible step up if he maintains it.

In any case the trade at the time was one in STL favor. We traded a guy who wasn't worth it to us for a guy who is worth it to us. Even now Fedde is well worth the price we pay.

If I ran the team I would have traded Fedde last December when everyone was looking at his season long stats and wondering if this was sustainable. I believe DeWitt and others were afraid of backlash if they actually DID a rebuild. So they sit in the middle again.

Lastly some (not saying you did) will whine about me caring about DeWitts money. I do not care in the least. But I am a realist and understand the team will spend to a set budget. And they must maximize production versus cost. I still believe they made the right decision with that trade and doubt Edman would be this productive on the Cardinals.

No problems at all AZ.

Agree the TE was being replaced whether or not we agree to it. I seen value in what he brought to the table. League average sounds like
a negative until you can't get it as in CF was last season. I could go into STATs that would support TE being labeled as league average by OPS+
does not show his complete contributions on offense. OBP/BB are his fail. He essentially needs to BB 1.5 times more a week. When
uninjured he was in the top 3 on the team in total bases. He was good for 45-50 XBH a year and steal 30. That combination scores runs by both
putting himself in score position and bringing in others. If he'd BB maybe he'd get better STATS at least different.

The debate was with how we compare trade values of EF and TE. Which has also become irrelevant.
That now St. louis has a player EF with some greater trade value.
I disagree with that position is all. It will depend more on the team that wants or better yet needs with either player.
IF the Cards decided to keep either player that also changes the dynamic for that makes another player tradeable like
Palante or Winn just for examples.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

That trade was perfectly fine. We gave up an injured, lesser version of Brendan Donovan for a starter who (when all is said and done) will have pitched to a 3.5 ERA over his year and a half here.

Also we traded a guy who became a free agent and got way more money than he would be worth to STL. And we still got Fedde at $7 mil this year which is a bargain in today's market.

TE was on a 2 yr contract.
LAD upped it before they had to.
There's like $2 million difference in
What those 2 contracts cost. If neither
Player is/was a part of the future then the
Only difference is what some team might be
willing to give up for one vs the other, negligible IMO,
not the $2 million in Bills pocket.

You are right. They had him another year I thought he was a FA in 2025. My mistake.

I would still posit that STL has multiple players in the positions Tommy plays that are far less expensive and not that far behind in production while Fedde is not someone they have a lot of replacements for.

SS - Winn. No he isn't as productive as Edman, yet, but far less expensive.
2B - Donovan, Gorman, Saggese and eventually Weatherholt. I expect at this rate Donovan is getting a big raise but he is a much more threatening bat and should be kept.
CF - Looks like Scott is keeping that.

Edmans true value lies in playing SS. If he is a starting SS he is an excellent defender and his bat was about league average 101 OPS+. Very valuable to a team needing a SS and not a dead spot in the lineup. And one with deep enough pockets to afford what was a league average hitter for his price. Cue the Dodgers.

His break out with the Dodgers is stunning. I did not see this coming and I really doubt the Dodgers did either. An incredible step up if he maintains it.

In any case the trade at the time was one in STL favor. We traded a guy who wasn't worth it to us for a guy who is worth it to us. Even now Fedde is well worth the price we pay.

If I ran the team I would have traded Fedde last December when everyone was looking at his season long stats and wondering if this was sustainable. I believe DeWitt and others were afraid of backlash if they actually DID a rebuild. So they sit in the middle again.

Lastly some (not saying you did) will whine about me caring about DeWitts money. I do not care in the least. But I am a realist and understand the team will spend to a set budget. And they must maximize production versus cost. I still believe they made the right decision with that trade and doubt Edman would be this productive on the Cardinals.

No problems at all AZ.

Agree the TE was being replaced whether or not we agree to it. I seen value in what he brought to the table. League average sounds like
a negative until you can't get it as in CF was last season. I could go into STATs that would support TE being labeled as league average by OPS+
does not show his complete contributions on offense. OBP/BB are his fail. He essentially needs to BB 1.5 times more a week. When
uninjured he was in the top 3 on the team in total bases. He was good for 45-50 XBH a year and steal 30. That combination scores runs by both
putting himself in score position and bringing in others. If he'd BB maybe he'd get better STATS at least different.

The debate was with how we compare trade values of EF and TE. Which has also become irrelevant.
That now St. louis has a player EF with some greater trade value.
I disagree with that position is all. It will depend more on the team that wants or better yet needs with either player.
IF the Cards decided to keep either player that also changes the dynamic for that makes another player tradeable like
Palante or Winn just for examples.

All fair points.

[RamFan08NY]

Cards fans bought it hook line and sinker?? Really? Are you THAT naive to think any of us had a vote? We're all fans. All we can do is root for the hand we're dealt. Enjoy the summer bro. It's baseball. It's a game!

[sikeston bulldog2]

Cards fans bought it hook line and sinker?? Really? Are you THAT naive to think any of us had a vote? We're all fans. All we can do is root for the hand we're dealt. Enjoy the summer bro. It's baseball. It's a game!

A pass time.