What needs fixing?

[cardinalsfever44]

Without star power this franchise is up against it.

Walker was hyped to be the guy.... it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Wetherholt could very well be solid but a De la Cruz or Bobby Witt jr. its doubtful.

You have to have that player to build around.

You can't build a foundation around a bunch of accessories and "solid" players.

If you aren't in position to draft one, or develop one then the only answer is to buy one and if the Cardinals aren't willing to do that then the only answer is to wait and be in position to draft one or get lucky enough to have another late pick like Pujols drop in your lap.

Maybe lightening will strike twice.

The Reds and Royals are not good teams either.

Pitching, pitching, pitching. Then more pitching.

[11WSChamps]

Without star power this franchise is up against it.

Walker was hyped to be the guy.... it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Wetherholt could very well be solid but a De la Cruz or Bobby Witt jr. its doubtful.

You have to have that player to build around.

You can't build a foundation around a bunch of accessories and "solid" players.

If you aren't in position to draft one, or develop one then the only answer is to buy one and if the Cardinals aren't willing to do that then the only answer is to wait and be in position to draft one or get lucky enough to have another late pick like Pujols drop in your lap.

Maybe lightening will strike twice.

The Reds and Royals are not good teams either.

Pitching, pitching, pitching. Then more pitching.

Where have you been?

Royals made the playoffs last season.

It doesn't happen overnight thus the term "build around".

The Reds with Francona will get more competitive.

[cardinalsfever44]

Without star power this franchise is up against it.

Walker was hyped to be the guy.... it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Wetherholt could very well be solid but a De la Cruz or Bobby Witt jr. its doubtful.

You have to have that player to build around.

You can't build a foundation around a bunch of accessories and "solid" players.

If you aren't in position to draft one, or develop one then the only answer is to buy one and if the Cardinals aren't willing to do that then the only answer is to wait and be in position to draft one or get lucky enough to have another late pick like Pujols drop in your lap.

Maybe lightening will strike twice.

The Reds and Royals are not good teams either.

Pitching, pitching, pitching. Then more pitching.

Where have you been?

Royals made the playoffs last season.

It doesn't happen overnight thus the term "build around".

The Reds with Francona will get more competitive.

The Royals last year were a whole 3 games better than the Cards after years of sucking and this year are right back in the dumps.

Cards Talk has been telling me to watch out for the Reds for a decade now. I'm still on the lookout......

[BrockFloodMaris]

OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Recalibrate some fans’ W/L expectations downward to around 72-90. Any better results will be a pleasant surprise. Some folks are like a dog with a bone about fighting with BDW on what this years goal is. 2025 is a reset year. See what we got. Rebuild the player development system. Instruct, assess talent, let Bloom start his POBO job at the trade deadline. Those acquisitions will be his. Please let the 2025 NLC title go.

[11WSChamps]

Without star power this franchise is up against it.

Walker was hyped to be the guy.... it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Wetherholt could very well be solid but a De la Cruz or Bobby Witt jr. its doubtful.

You have to have that player to build around.

You can't build a foundation around a bunch of accessories and "solid" players.

If you aren't in position to draft one, or develop one then the only answer is to buy one and if the Cardinals aren't willing to do that then the only answer is to wait and be in position to draft one or get lucky enough to have another late pick like Pujols drop in your lap.

Maybe lightening will strike twice.

The Reds and Royals are not good teams either.

Pitching, pitching, pitching. Then more pitching.

Where have you been?

Royals made the playoffs last season.

It doesn't happen overnight thus the term "build around".

The Reds with Francona will get more competitive.

The Royals last year were a whole 3 games better than the Cards after years of sucking and this year are right back in the dumps.

Cards Talk has been telling me to watch out for the Reds for a decade now. I'm still on the lookout......

Not talking about ten years ago talking about now. Using those platers and teams as examples of stars to build a future around.

Cardinals don't have one of those.

Get it now?

[hugeCardfan]

OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Recalibrate some fans’ W/L expectations downward to around 72-90. Any better results will be a pleasant surprise. Some folks are like a dog with a bone about fighting with BDW on what this years goal is. 2025 is a reset year. See what we got. Rebuild the player development system. Instruct, assess talent, let Bloom start his POBO job at the trade deadline. Those acquisitions will be his. Please let the 2025 NLC title go.

Who said anything about the NLC title? Good grief. They need to first learn how to win games on a regular basis. It would be nice to start each game thinking they had a chance to win it. Pick any number of wins you want. I'm only interested in seeing the team gel at some point in the season and do as well as they can.

No matter. We can't afford to have a bullpen much like 2023 which seems what we have right now.

[ilcubuffs]

If "fixing" in this instance actually means repair to a improved level then the simple and easier approach would be - what does NOT need fixing? IF refers to MO Ran's duct tape approach then there will be even more issues than you see now.

[hugeCardfan]

Today was a vignette of what I'd love to see. Pallante is in trouble and Matz steps up with 2.2 innings of very solid pitching. Had the usual suspects been trotted out, we'd have lost this game 11-10 or so...

Those innings that Matz threw not only kept us in the game but rested the pen. There is no perfect solution or winning formula. The players still have to deliver. But, we have a really good idea of what isn't working.

I suspect that our schedule made it practical to pitch Matz who may still start in 5 days, but, I'd like to see piggy backing while we sort out a shattered pen.

[Cranny]

Even after the debacle in New York, the Cards are still # 5 in MLB in team OPS. So the position players may be set for awhile. They’ll probably look to give the young starting pitchers a shot now, with Pallante, Liberatore, McGreevy, Mathews, and Roby penciled into the season long 2026 rotation behind Gray. Maybe add one veteran innings eater there for depth. But the bullpen will need some serious work. They’ll need to find more Maton types this off season.