What needs fixing?

[alw80]

Better SPs, better RPs, and a new OF.

[scoutyjones2]

Walker cannot get by with a 29.9% strikeout rate and a .099 ISO. Those are really bad numbers for anyone, but especially a bat you had such high hopes for. Walker is among the worst in baseball at hitting the ball hard consistently, barreling up the baseball, is chasing pitches at a very high rate, whiffing at an even worse rate, and his walk rate has regressed back down to well below-average.

[scoutyjones2]

Burleson has been the Cardinals' primary DH against right-handed pitching while filling in at first base as needed as well. Last year, Burleson posted a 125 wRC+ against right-handed pitching and a 125 wRC+ as a whole during the first half for St. Louis. He really struggled against lefties all year long, but the damage he could do against righties was a real asset to the team. He squared up the baseball almost the best in baseball and struck out just 12.8% of the time, and all of his expected numbers looked great for the second year in a row.

In 2025 though, those expected numbers have taken a major dip. He's yet to barrel a single baseball, he's not hitting the ball particularly hard, and the power has been zapped from his bat. He has yet to hit a home run this year, and that's coming off a second half where he hit just four home runs in 231 plate appearances. This is a far cry in production from the guy who slugged 17 home runs in his first 340 plate appearances in 2024.

[rockondlouie]

-Oli fired along w/his staff except Brown, Jay and Descalso

-Mikolas DFA'd

-McGreevy recalled to start

-Burleson traded

-Matz traded

-Fernandez sent to AAA

-Siani traded or sent to AAA

-Baker sent to AAA or DFA'd

-Mo put on a island, not allowed to make any moves as Bloom moves into the POBO office

[BrummerStealsHome]

I don't care what else is broken, subpar, or worrisome. At the top of the list, flashing and glaring and making fart sounds, is that enduring fact we need a new, competent manager.

[The Nard]

OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Remember that there’s a staff of 13 pitchers; inserting a 6th starter still leaves you with 7arms, if used correctly. If any of the 7 are worthless, we’ll, that’s up the the team management to fix.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

[Shady]

There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

With Donovan and some players younger than him, there is some serious potential for the future. And, looking ahead, Wetherholt, Mathews, McGreevy, Roby, etc. could be fabulous additions in the not too distant future. The key is the Cardinals organization being savvy enough to move on from the older, still talented players to get some additional pieces to the long range puzzle. Obviously, the NTC is somewhat of a problem in moving some of those types that need to be traded for the long-range pieces I mentioned. Are Mo and Bloom up to the task needed now and into the trade deadline?

[hugeCardfan]

There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

[cardstatman]

Only one youngster is performing well so far.
.AVG .OBP .SLG PA Player (2023-2025 stats shown)
.316 .350 .579 327 Herrera
.254 .354 .446 943 Contreras - slumping in 2025
.287 .353 .430 1116 Donovan
.253 .359 .416 1005 Nootbar
.270 .325 .428 1333 Arenado
.286 .307 .429 88 Saggese - small sample size but on a good track

These need some fixing. Not many signs of improvement.
.221 .302 .440 898 Gorman - not good enough for a poor defender
.252 .314 .411 724 Walker - not good enough for a poor defender
.259 .309 .402 1011 Burleson - not good enough for a poor defender
.249 .300 .379 825 Winn - good glove; poor bat is showing improvement
.208 .315 .338 181 Baker - not good enough for a poor defender
.208 .315 .338 271 Pages
.226 .281 .279 356 Siani
.197 .247 .300 232 Scott
.189 .283 .221 140 Fermin

[AZ_Cardsfan]

There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

A thoughtful post. My only concern with the idea of moving M and M to the pen is who replaces them i the rotation and who is ready to do that? I'd hate to bring up some kids not ready and hurt their confidence if they aren't ready. But I'm no scout and don't know who they could replace King and fernandez with.

[hugeCardfan]

There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

A thoughtful post. My only concern with the idea of moving M and M to the pen is who replaces them i the rotation and who is ready to do that? I'd hate to bring up some kids not ready and hurt their confidence if they aren't ready. But I'm no scout and don't know who they could replace King and fernandez with.

I apologize if I wasn't clear. We are currently at 6 starters. I would go back to 5 and replace the missing starter with McGreevy. He started very well once or twice last year and has been starting in Memphis. I think it's time to insert him.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

There is no solution to turning this team into a contender in 2025 unless management suddenly decides they are willing to dump gobs of money into the team and trade away assets from the farm to get players from teams that are rebuilding. Which if course would be insanity but heck the question is how to fix this team and that's it.

Not going to happen. I think if you are a real Cardinals fan you have to accept the reality that in order to threaten for another title there has to be a year or two of rebuild. I didn't say you have to buy tickets and spend money that's always up to you. If you don't like the product stay home.

But they can't get there any other route. I watch the team not so much caring about w/l (well still a little can't help it) as I know it's a rebuild season. I watch to see how the young talent is progressing. It's still baseball and I'm still a fan.

There is no clearcut definition for "contender in 2025". The Cardinals are trying to build a competitive team that serves as a building block for improvement over time. A competitive team is one that has a chance to win on any given night. It doesn't mean we have to win 90 games. 85...or any other number. I believe we were on the way to doing this with solid starters and some high end relievers. The young position players started the year well and it was fun to watch the Birds play. Boston and the Mets have exposed a particular weakness with our pen resulting in 7 of 7 losses away. Virtually all of the Mets games were close and pushed the pen to the breaking point.

Were not going to spend big. Not at this time and not for quite a while. On the other hand, a strategic acquisition is not outside of the realm of the possible.

The pen disaster developed as a result of 2 things. 2 pitchers (Fernandez and King) who were quite effective last year have been completely ineffective this year. 2 other pitchers who were critical to the pen last year, (Liberatore and Matz) are starting now. The weakness is not starters. The starters have done a credible job save one or two games. But, the chain link weakness is clearly bullpen and the offense cannot compensate. There is no pending disaster. If we don't reach playoffs, few will be surprised. But, these players need to believe that they have a chance to win, or they will fold the tents...pure and simple. Not sure how that will play with the building block plans...but it won't help.

By moving Matz and Mikolas to the pen we keep some future building plans in place with Libby and perhaps McGreevy as starters. Focusing this team on winning should be what it is about. Screw the playoffs. Dam.n the torpedos.

A thoughtful post. My only concern with the idea of moving M and M to the pen is who replaces them i the rotation and who is ready to do that? I'd hate to bring up some kids not ready and hurt their confidence if they aren't ready. But I'm no scout and don't know who they could replace King and fernandez with.

I apologize if I wasn't clear. We are currently at 6 starters. I would go back to 5 and replace the missing starter with McGreevy. He started very well once or twice last year and has been starting in Memphis. I think it's time to insert him.

Maybe they are waiting until McGreevy as doing better in AAA. OTOH he is 24 and it's about time he sank or swims with the big boys.

[11WSChamps]

Without star power this franchise is up against it.

Walker was hyped to be the guy.... it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

Wetherholt could very well be solid but a De la Cruz or Bobby Witt jr. its doubtful.

You have to have that player to build around.

You can't build a foundation around a bunch of accessories and "solid" players.

If you aren't in position to draft one, or develop one then the only answer is to buy one and if the Cardinals aren't willing to do that then the only answer is to wait and be in position to draft one or get lucky enough to have another late pick like Pujols drop in your lap.

Maybe lightening will strike twice.

[1983cougar]

The front office. I have said this before they are hoping to win a mediocre division and then take their chances. They are not building a team that can contend for pennants or World series!
I consider myself fortunate to have seen 4 ws titles (I was alive in 1964 but too young to remember). I don't expect to see another any time soon but I have been a fan for almost 60 years and even though I won't go to games I'll still root for them.

[Baseball Savant]

Trade all the vets ASAP

Go young and stockpile top 5 picks, it actually works

Compete for WS in 2029