can someone tell me one good player we got from 2023 fire sale?

[jcgmoi]

Mo got NOTHING of value.

Come on, man. Give Saggese a couple of weeks anyway before you dismiss him.

[hugeCardfan]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Roby
Saggase
Robberse
Prieto

You have no idea if those guys are good or not. No one does.

Of course we look. Take the time to look up their stats and scouting reports.

Baseball is littered with guys who perform in the minors but can’t at the big league level. They might, they might not. I don’t know and neither do you.

They didn't trade for major leaguers. They traded for high level prospects. All of the guys we picked up in the trades fall into your category. They traded for the future, but you don't seem to understand that.

So they’re lottery tickets, like any other prospect. The answer to the original question isn’t a list of names. It’s “we don’t know yet.”

What did you expect them to get back in trades for players who were just rentals for other teams? All Star major leaguers?

Sigh. Is this a bit?

The original question was: “Can someone tell me one good player we got from the 2023 fire sale?”

The ONLY accurate, correct answer is: “We don’t know yet.”

Nobody said anything about expecting all-stars. They’re prospects. We. Don’t. Know. What. They’re. Going. To. Be.

That’s how it always works when trading rentals. It isn’t 2 years as ecleme suggested, it’s one year plus a winter. Trading is always a case of giving up players for someone the other team is willing to let go.

Here is your only guarantee, none of the players we traded would still be in St Louis doing anything for us.

Here is a question for the OP: Who of the MLB players is still contributing on the teams we traded them to? At least we have budding prospects to show for them.

[Melville]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

While others are correct in saying it is too soon to tell, your core point is spot on.
The group they acquired have not progressed as well an STL expected.
Saggesse is just 22 and could become a RH version of Burleson - a valuable multi-position roving "starter".
But he did regress a bit last year.
Roby has started just 24 games in the past 2 seasons and has averaged just 4 innings per game.
He strikes out a lot of guys - but has been neither good nor durable.
Robberse has been a bit better with 42 starts and averaged the minimum 5 inning expectation - with a respectable WHIP.
Both are small for a RH starter and STL will be lucky if either become a reliable back-end starter.
Currently, both are more likely the end up as BP pieces.
Prieto will probably bounce around MLB for a few years as a bench piece.
Showalter might be a very sold BP arm - but he is the furthest away.
Rom looks like a big miss.
Kloffenstein is long gone.
Other than Saggese, not one should be considered a top15 prospect in a good system.
Bottom line.
STL may possibly end up with one contributing position player and a backend pitcher - and anything more than that would be a real surprise at this point.
That's not very good work from Super Slo Mo - as should be expected.

[RamFan08NY]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Wow. That's quite a take. What would you expect to get from the guys the Cardinals traded? I don't even think I'd call those moves "fire sales". It was more like a garage sale. Do you ever plan on getting rich when you have a garage sale, clearing the attic of unneeded clutter?

The Cardinals got a few prospects that have potential to contribute, or potential as trade chips. Mission accomplished.

[ClassicO]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

While others are correct in saying it is too soon to tell, your core point is spot on.
The group they acquired have not progressed as well an STL expected.
Saggesse is just 22 and could become a RH version of Burleson - a valuable multi-position roving "starter".
But he did regress a bit last year.
Roby has started just 24 games in the past 2 seasons and has averaged just 4 innings per game.
He strikes out a lot of guys - but has been neither good nor durable.
Robberse has been a bit better with 42 starts and averaged the minimum 5 inning expectation - with a respectable WHIP.
Both are small for a RH starter and STL will be lucky if either become a reliable back-end starter.
Currently, both are more likely the end up as BP pieces.
Prieto will probably bounce around MLB for a few years as a bench piece.
Showalter might be a very sold BP arm - but he is the furthest away.
Rom looks like a big miss.
Kloffenstein is long gone.
Other than Saggese, not one should be considered a top15 prospect in a good system.
Bottom line.
STL may possibly end up with one contributing position player and a backend pitcher - and anything more than that would be a real surprise at this point.
That's not very good work from Super Slo Mo - as should be expected.

You repeatedly told us all - before the trades - how worthless Flaherty, Hicks and O'Neill were. You were supremely confident that Hudson was "irreplaceable" and far better than Jack. You beat TON like a rented mule. Now, you expect us to believe they should have received a treasure trove back.
And we remember who you touted as the best of all -- Carlson! Ha ha.
And in January, you told us all that Herrera was "not even remotely close" to being the 2nd best hitter on the Cards. And I quote:
"Contreras, Winn, Donovan, Burleson, and Gorman have all been more productive. Herrera's bat could continue to develop, but he's going to need to make more damaging contact. *** The best option is to trade him."

Mo may not be very good, but you're far worse at evaluating talent.
You're a joke.

[ecleme22]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Roby
Saggase
Robberse
Prieto

You have no idea if those guys are good or not. No one does.

Of course we look. Take the time to look up their stats and scouting reports.

Baseball is littered with guys who perform in the minors but can’t at the big league level. They might, they might not. I don’t know and neither do you.

They didn't trade for major leaguers. They traded for high level prospects. All of the guys we picked up in the trades fall into your category. They traded for the future, but you don't seem to understand that.

So they’re lottery tickets, like any other prospect. The answer to the original question isn’t a list of names. It’s “we don’t know yet.”

What did you expect them to get back in trades for players who were just rentals for other teams? All Star major leaguers?

Sigh. Is this a bit?

The original question was: “Can someone tell me one good player we got from the 2023 fire sale?”

The ONLY accurate, correct answer is: “We don’t know yet.”

Nobody said anything about expecting all-stars. They’re prospects. We. Don’t. Know. What. They’re. Going. To. Be.

Another correct answer: It’s been almost two years and it’s getting a little awkward.

The Cards traded a lot of talent. As of now, who in the return is even close to being a ‘stud?’

We have Saggese who might be a nice utility player, and bunch of works-in-progresses.


Meanwhile Ragans has 46 starts for the Royals…

[desertrat23]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Roby
Saggase
Robberse
Prieto

You have no idea if those guys are good or not. No one does.

Of course we look. Take the time to look up their stats and scouting reports.

Baseball is littered with guys who perform in the minors but can’t at the big league level. They might, they might not. I don’t know and neither do you.

They didn't trade for major leaguers. They traded for high level prospects. All of the guys we picked up in the trades fall into your category. They traded for the future, but you don't seem to understand that.

So they’re lottery tickets, like any other prospect. The answer to the original question isn’t a list of names. It’s “we don’t know yet.”

What did you expect them to get back in trades for players who were just rentals for other teams? All Star major leaguers?

Sigh. Is this a bit?

The original question was: “Can someone tell me one good player we got from the 2023 fire sale?”

The ONLY accurate, correct answer is: “We don’t know yet.”

Nobody said anything about expecting all-stars. They’re prospects. We. Don’t. Know. What. They’re. Going. To. Be.

That’s how it always works when trading rentals. It isn’t 2 years as ecleme suggested, it’s one year plus a winter. Trading is always a case of giving up players for someone the other team is willing to let go.

Here is your only guarantee, none of the players we traded would still be in St Louis doing anything for us.

Here is a question for the OP: Who of the MLB players is still contributing on the teams we traded them to? At least we have budding prospects to show for them.

Yeah, I don’t really have a problem with the moves that were made, and it’s too early to call them busts. My only point was to Cranny who called them “good players” in yet another attempt to carry MO’s water. They MIGHT be good, we just don’t know.

[thetank2]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

While others are correct in saying it is too soon to tell, your core point is spot on.
The group they acquired have not progressed as well an STL expected.
Saggesse is just 22 and could become a RH version of Burleson - a valuable multi-position roving "starter".
But he did regress a bit last year.
Roby has started just 24 games in the past 2 seasons and has averaged just 4 innings per game.
He strikes out a lot of guys - but has been neither good nor durable.
Robberse has been a bit better with 42 starts and averaged the minimum 5 inning expectation - with a respectable WHIP.
Both are small for a RH starter and STL will be lucky if either become a reliable back-end starter.
Currently, both are more likely the end up as BP pieces.
Prieto will probably bounce around MLB for a few years as a bench piece.
Showalter might be a very sold BP arm - but he is the furthest away.
Rom looks like a big miss.
Kloffenstein is long gone.
Other than Saggese, not one should be considered a top15 prospect in a good system.
Bottom line.
STL may possibly end up with one contributing position player and a backend pitcher - and anything more than that would be a real surprise at this point.
That's not very good work from Super Slo Mo - as should be expected.

You repeatedly told us all - before the trades - how worthless Flaherty, Hicks and O'Neill were. You were supremely confident that Hudson was "irreplaceable" and far better than Jack. You beat TON like a rented mule. Now, you expect us to believe they should have received a treasure trove back.
And we remember who you touted as the best of all -- Carlson! Ha ha.
And in January, you told us all that Herrera was "not even remotely close" to being the 2nd best hitter on the Cards. And I quote:
"Contreras, Winn, Donovan, Burleson, and Gorman have all been more productive. Herrera's bat could continue to develop, but he's going to need to make more damaging contact. *** The best option is to trade him."

Mo may not be very good, but you're far worse at evaluating talent.
You're a joke.

He is a joke!!

[WLTFE]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

While others are correct in saying it is too soon to tell, your core point is spot on.
The group they acquired have not progressed as well an STL expected.
Saggesse is just 22 and could become a RH version of Burleson - a valuable multi-position roving "starter".
But he did regress a bit last year.
Roby has started just 24 games in the past 2 seasons and has averaged just 4 innings per game.
He strikes out a lot of guys - but has been neither good nor durable.
Robberse has been a bit better with 42 starts and averaged the minimum 5 inning expectation - with a respectable WHIP.
Both are small for a RH starter and STL will be lucky if either become a reliable back-end starter.
Currently, both are more likely the end up as BP pieces.
Prieto will probably bounce around MLB for a few years as a bench piece.
Showalter might be a very sold BP arm - but he is the furthest away.
Rom looks like a big miss.
Kloffenstein is long gone.
Other than Saggese, not one should be considered a top15 prospect in a good system.
Bottom line.
STL may possibly end up with one contributing position player and a backend pitcher - and anything more than that would be a real surprise at this point.
That's not very good work from Super Slo Mo - as should be expected.

You repeatedly told us all - before the trades - how worthless Flaherty, Hicks and O'Neill were. You were supremely confident that Hudson was "irreplaceable" and far better than Jack. You beat TON like a rented mule. Now, you expect us to believe they should have received a treasure trove back.
And we remember who you touted as the best of all -- Carlson! Ha ha.
And in January, you told us all that Herrera was "not even remotely close" to being the 2nd best hitter on the Cards. And I quote:
"Contreras, Winn, Donovan, Burleson, and Gorman have all been more productive. Herrera's bat could continue to develop, but he's going to need to make more damaging contact. *** The best option is to trade him."

Mo may not be very good, but you're far worse at evaluating talent.
You're a joke.

He is a joke!!

Yawn

[peterman'srealitytour]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Roby
Saggase
Robberse
Prieto

You have no idea if those guys are good or not. No one does.

Of course we look. Take the time to look up their stats and scouting reports.

Baseball is littered with guys who perform in the minors but can’t at the big league level. They might, they might not. I don’t know and neither do you.

They didn't trade for major leaguers. They traded for high level prospects. All of the guys we picked up in the trades fall into your category. They traded for the future, but you don't seem to understand that.

When you say they traded for “high level prospects”, do you mean the players were at high levels (AA or AAA)? If you’re trying to say the players were high level in player rankings, you’re living in fantasy land. Saggese and Roby were the only guys who projected as MLB starting material. And Roby came with a history of arm trouble.

[Cranny]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Roby
Saggase
Robberse
Prieto

You have no idea if those guys are good or not. No one does.

Of course we look. Take the time to look up their stats and scouting reports.

Baseball is littered with guys who perform in the minors but can’t at the big league level. They might, they might not. I don’t know and neither do you.

They didn't trade for major leaguers. They traded for high level prospects. All of the guys we picked up in the trades fall into your category. They traded for the future, but you don't seem to understand that.

When you say they traded for “high level prospects”, do you mean the players were at high levels (AA or AAA)? If you’re trying to say the players were high level in player rankings, you’re living in fantasy land. Saggese and Roby were the only guys who projected as MLB starting material. And Roby came with a history of arm trouble.

High level - as at AAA or AA, peterman. Except for Showalter.

[Rojo Johnson]

I love to watch Cranny suck up to Moe, then squirm when called on it. Cranny’s Mr. Disingenuous when it comes to this front office. Everyone knows we are where we are because of Moe’s lack of leadership and baseball acumen. He’s just awful and it is not up for debate. He’s run this team into the ground and everyone will be paying for it for the foreseeable future. The lack of butts in the seats tells you that.

[Cranny]

I love to watch Cranny suck up to Moe, then squirm when called on it. Cranny’s Mr. Disingenuous when it comes to this front office. Everyone knows we are where we are because of Moe’s lack of leadership and baseball acumen. He’s just awful and it is not up for debate. He’s run this team into the ground and everyone will be paying for it for the foreseeable future. The lack of butts in the seats tells you that.

Actually, Rojo, I just try to be fair, and not one sided. We all have our opinions. I compliment Mo on some things and criticize him on other things.

But let me ask you a question. Right now in MLB the
Cardinals rank -

3rd in runs scored
1st in batting average
1st in OBP
2nd in slugging percentage
2nd in OPS

Who did that?

Plus all the position players are under control for multiple years.

Be fair in your answer.

[Chubbs0910]

That year was massively important for the organization, the rare fire sale giving up your best players in an awful season. Trades like these are supposed to rebuild your major league team quickly on the fly, much like the Oakland A's and Tampa have done for many seasons.

The trades of Jordan Hicks, Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty have resulted to exactly zero usable assets at the major league level.

This is why the Cardinals are going nowhere fast.
They have nobody making personnel decisions that knows anything about baseball.

Roby
Saggase
Robberse
Prieto

You have no idea if those guys are good or not. No one does.

Of course we look. Take the time to look up their stats and scouting reports.

Baseball is littered with guys who perform in the minors but can’t at the big league level. They might, they might not. I don’t know and neither do you.

They didn't trade for major leaguers. They traded for high level prospects. All of the guys we picked up in the trades fall into your category. They traded for the future, but you don't seem to understand that.

So they’re lottery tickets, like any other prospect. The answer to the original question isn’t a list of names. It’s “we don’t know yet.”

Nah i wouldn't say they're lottery tickets. I'd say more like a safe CD. You can't touch them for awhile but they'll contribute down the road a bit.

Giving million dollar signing bonuses to teenagers is more of the lottery ticket.

[Quincy Varnish]

Sigh. Is this a bit?

The original question was: “Can someone tell me one good player we got from the 2023 fire sale?”

The ONLY accurate, correct answer is: “We don’t know yet.”

Nobody said anything about expecting all-stars. They’re prospects. We. Don’t. Know. What. They’re. Going. To. Be.

Another correct answer: It’s been almost two years and it’s getting a little awkward.

The Cards traded a lot of talent. As of now, who in the return is even close to being a ‘stud?’

We have Saggese who might be a nice utility player, and bunch of works-in-progresses.


Meanwhile Ragans has 46 starts for the Royals…

How many other Cole Ragans were traded at the deadline?

Are 28 other teams also stupid for not getting him?

[ecleme22]

Sigh. Is this a bit?

The original question was: “Can someone tell me one good player we got from the 2023 fire sale?”

The ONLY accurate, correct answer is: “We don’t know yet.”

Nobody said anything about expecting all-stars. They’re prospects. We. Don’t. Know. What. They’re. Going. To. Be.

Another correct answer: It’s been almost two years and it’s getting a little awkward.

The Cards traded a lot of talent. As of now, who in the return is even close to being a ‘stud?’

We have Saggese who might be a nice utility player, and bunch of works-in-progresses.


Meanwhile Ragans has 46 starts for the Royals…

How many other Cole Ragans were traded at the deadline?

Are 28 other teams also stupid for not getting him?

The bigger point is the Cards traded 6 players at the deadline almost two years ago, and the players they got have made little to no impact on the mlb level and really aren’t making any statements in the minors.

That’s a problem.