The teams problem in a nutshell.

[CCard]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

[sikeston bulldog2]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

[CCard]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

Dog, all I see is intentionally losing by the ownership. This team was so close to a playoff spot and some excitement for the fans. Instead the team was gutted and minor league replacements and castoffs were acquired. It's a shame, this team could have been much better. Keep Sonny, keep Contreras at 1st. Dh Burleson or let him tumble around in left field. Resign Maton who did a decent job. Acquire another decent starter and put Leahy in the pen or move Libertore to the pen. There was the makings of a playoff team and it wouldn't have been that hard to make it work but alas, their goal was not to win. That the team excelled for a while is a testament to baseball and some of their players but talent prevails eventually. And you have to pay for talent.

[WhiteyHerzog]

This team’s problem is easy to identify: DeWitt.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

Dog, all I see is intentionally losing by the ownership. This team was so close to a playoff spot and some excitement for the fans. Instead the team was gutted and minor league replacements and castoffs were acquired. It's a shame, this team could have been much better. Keep Sonny, keep Contreras at 1st. Dh Burleson or let him tumble around in left field. Resign Maton who did a decent job. Acquire another decent starter and put Leahy in the pen or move Libertore to the pen. There was the makings of a playoff team and it wouldn't have been that hard to make it work but alas, their goal was not to win. That the team excelled for a while is a testament to baseball and some of their players but talent prevails eventually. And you have to pay for talent.

Nice write. I feel they are wanting to get to a level that they can integrate outside talent. I think we were such a mess, that the average fan didn’t realize the hole we were in. Deep. Wide. Texas sized mud hole.

So. We had to choose a plan/option to go. I think they stripped it down, as you noted, and will build it up.

As we stand presently, the core is small, the money is limited based on future happenings, and the talent is MLB level.

One more thing. Again as you noted, the talent from the farm wasn’t up to higher level baseball standards.

Now we know.

[45s]

refusing to purchase the product is the only power followers of the team has.......but it is indeed powerful

yet many continue to be vehemently critical of the club......while continuing to attend games....

hello???

[mattmitchl44]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

Dog, all I see is intentionally losing by the ownership. This team was so close to a playoff spot and some excitement for the fans. Instead the team was gutted and minor league replacements and castoffs were acquired. It's a shame, this team could have been much better. Keep Sonny, keep Contreras at 1st. Dh Burleson or let him tumble around in left field. Resign Maton who did a decent job. Acquire another decent starter and put Leahy in the pen or move Libertore to the pen. There was the makings of a playoff team and it wouldn't have been that hard to make it work but alas, their goal was not to win. That the team excelled for a while is a testament to baseball and some of their players but talent prevails eventually. And you have to pay for talent.

When the decisions were made last offseason to trade Gray, Contreras, Donovan, etc. there was no evidence that this team would be anything close to a playoff team, even with those guys.

And acquiring "decent" SPs, etc. just to try to sneak into the playoffs has pretty much been the same mistake the organization had made for a decade already.

[CCard]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

Dog, all I see is intentionally losing by the ownership. This team was so close to a playoff spot and some excitement for the fans. Instead the team was gutted and minor league replacements and castoffs were acquired. It's a shame, this team could have been much better. Keep Sonny, keep Contreras at 1st. Dh Burleson or let him tumble around in left field. Resign Maton who did a decent job. Acquire another decent starter and put Leahy in the pen or move Libertore to the pen. There was the makings of a playoff team and it wouldn't have been that hard to make it work but alas, their goal was not to win. That the team excelled for a while is a testament to baseball and some of their players but talent prevails eventually. And you have to pay for talent.

When the decisions were made last offseason to trade Gray, Contreras, Donovan, etc. there was no evidence that this team would be anything close to a playoff team, even with those guys.

And acquiring "decent" SPs, etc. just to try to sneak into the playoffs has pretty much been the same mistake the organization had made for a decade already.

Riiight. Because losing for years will make all the difference. We've kicked this dead horse for more times than I care to recount. You believe in tanking until enough young cheap prospects will hopefully burst onto the scene and give a narrow window of opportunity for lightning to strike. I believe that a team should do everything in their power (which includes keeping payroll up or maybe even nudging it a little higher) to win every single year. At least it gives the fans a reason to show up or tune in. Who in their right mind wants to spend their hard earned dollars to go to a game or watch it on TV? Obviously you do, I don't.

[CCard]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

Dog, all I see is intentionally losing by the ownership. This team was so close to a playoff spot and some excitement for the fans. Instead the team was gutted and minor league replacements and castoffs were acquired. It's a shame, this team could have been much better. Keep Sonny, keep Contreras at 1st. Dh Burleson or let him tumble around in left field. Resign Maton who did a decent job. Acquire another decent starter and put Leahy in the pen or move Libertore to the pen. There was the makings of a playoff team and it wouldn't have been that hard to make it work but alas, their goal was not to win. That the team excelled for a while is a testament to baseball and some of their players but talent prevails eventually. And you have to pay for talent.

Nice write. I feel they are wanting to get to a level that they can integrate outside talent. I think we were such a mess, that the average fan didn’t realize the hole we were in. Deep. Wide. Texas sized mud hole.

So. We had to choose a plan/option to go. I think they stripped it down, as you noted, and will build it up.

As we stand presently, the core is small, the money is limited based on future happenings, and the talent is MLB level.

One more thing. Again as you noted, the talent from the farm wasn’t up to higher level baseball standards.

Now we know.

Now we find ourselves just a couple of games out of last place. Cincy and Pitt have been doing this (bleep) for decades and it still hasn't resulted in a championship. Most years they can't even make the playoffs. At least the Brewers try to win every year. That used to be the Cards mantra. Now it's tank and hope for some luck in the draft and for a few minor league players to burst into stardom at the same time. The philosophy sucks. If they can't put a competitive team on the field then why should people pay their money to see it? Simple as that. They don't have to spend Dodger type money to field a competitive team. If they had kept Gray and Contreras, then signed another solid starter, they could have put Libertore or Leahy or both in the pen to strengthen it. It appears they got lucky with Soriano. This team might not have made the playoffs but they were playing well for a while and now they're playing like the world is on their shoulders. Imagine a couple of anchors in the starting rotation and Contreras having the year he's having in St Louis. Ownership planned for this to happen and now it has. They cut payroll to the bone and signed castoffs. Now they're 14 games out and does it look like they'll be better next year?

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Now we find ourselves just a couple of games out of last place. Cincy and Pitt have been doing this (bleep) for decades and it still hasn't resulted in a championship. Most years they can't even make the playoffs. At least the Brewers try to win every year. That used to be the Cards mantra. Now it's tank and hope for some luck in the draft and for a few minor league players to burst into stardom at the same time. The philosophy sucks. If they can't put a competitive team on the field then why should people pay their money to see it? Simple as that. They don't have to spend Dodger type money to field a competitive team. If they had kept Gray and Contreras, then signed another solid starter, they could have put Libertore or Leahy or both in the pen to strengthen it. It appears they got lucky with Soriano. This team might not have made the playoffs but they were playing well for a while and now they're playing like the world is on their shoulders. Imagine a couple of anchors in the starting rotation and Contreras having the year he's having in St Louis. Ownership planned for this to happen and now it has. They cut payroll to the bone and signed castoffs. Now they're 14 games out and does it look like they'll be better next year?

Since you mention the Brewers, would you be suprised to learn that they did a big 'ole rebuild when Doug Melvin stepped down and they hired David Stearns? They made Craig Counsell their interim and then full time manager, then between 2015-2016 they traded half of their 40 man, including some of their best players, for prospects. They didn't compete in 2017. It wasn't until 2018 that they started adding players.

[mattmitchl44]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

I see it a bit differently.

There are 780 rostered players in MLB. 780. 26 per teams 30 teams.

The competition is razor thin reference better players. Some day a stud does well, some days a dud does well.

We are a team researching for identity. We are looking at a small core. We are looking to see who performs in summer heat. We are looking at who handles losing with grace.

This is our bottom. That’s good news. And in a year or two, we may be talking thresholds.

Dog, all I see is intentionally losing by the ownership. This team was so close to a playoff spot and some excitement for the fans. Instead the team was gutted and minor league replacements and castoffs were acquired. It's a shame, this team could have been much better. Keep Sonny, keep Contreras at 1st. Dh Burleson or let him tumble around in left field. Resign Maton who did a decent job. Acquire another decent starter and put Leahy in the pen or move Libertore to the pen. There was the makings of a playoff team and it wouldn't have been that hard to make it work but alas, their goal was not to win. That the team excelled for a while is a testament to baseball and some of their players but talent prevails eventually. And you have to pay for talent.

When the decisions were made last offseason to trade Gray, Contreras, Donovan, etc. there was no evidence that this team would be anything close to a playoff team, even with those guys.

And acquiring "decent" SPs, etc. just to try to sneak into the playoffs has pretty much been the same mistake the organization had made for a decade already.

Riiight. Because losing for years will make all the difference. We've kicked this dead horse for more times than I care to recount. You believe in tanking until enough young cheap prospects will hopefully burst onto the scene and give a narrow window of opportunity for lightning to strike. I believe that a team should do everything in their power (which includes keeping payroll up or maybe even nudging it a little higher) to win every single year. At least it gives the fans a reason to show up or tune in. Who in their right mind wants to spend their hard earned dollars to go to a game or watch it on TV? Obviously you do, I don't.

I believe a team with even a payroll of $170 million, like the Cardinals have had, has no other choice if they are going to compete with the Dodgers, Braves, Phillies, Yankees, etc. than to have gone all in on developing a big core of cost controlled players, because they will only ever be able to afford a very small number of expensive veteran players.

There is no "winning every year" or even "competing every year" without a big core of cost controlled players an a Top 5 farm system producing more year after year. They don't have a sufficient core of cost controlled players yet with which to even try to compete.

There no alternative in MLB in 2026 for anyone who isn't one of the biggest payroll teams.

[CorneliusWolfe]

When the decisions were made last offseason to trade Gray, Contreras, Donovan, etc. there was no evidence that this team would be anything close to a playoff team, even with those guys.

And acquiring "decent" SPs, etc. just to try to sneak into the playoffs has pretty much been the same mistake the organization had made for a decade already.

“No evidence”…maybe not 100% indisputable evidence but did they REALLY have NO idea “what they have” after the last several years of “seeing what they have”?

- they knew Wetherholt would make the team
-they chose to stick with Walker, so they must’ve at least expected modest improvement
-they expected Gorman to outperform Arenado
- they must’ve saw something in Leahy
- they were expected to have a upper tier defense
- they “had” a decent bullpen
- should’ve expected improvement from young vets (Burleson, McGreevy, Pallante, Liberatore, Winn, Victor Scott (at the time)
I know a few of these things didn’t go as planned but that’s how it goes, and a few others stepped up (Leahy and Walker for sure, Blaze and Church to a degree)

For all the talk and focus on improved development the last few years, did they think it wouldn’t work?

There was no reason to run off Sonny and Contreras because they were on fair contracts. On top of that, they could have added a good starter and a couple solid bullpen arms and still had a manageable payroll. Imagine had they paid up for Dylan Cease…

Cease
Sonny
McGreevy
Pallante
May
With Leahy and Liberatore back to pen

Add Contreras to our lineup and play Burleson against RHP only and find him DH ABs

THAT team be challenging the Brewers for the division and a first round bye right now, this year, and would at least be the top wildcard with a huge lead. Payroll would still be lower than the Mo years.

This team still can’t seem to project properly. I do see the improvements others see, but on the other
hand they also missed the opportunity to contend THIS year, but for some reason they thought it wouldn’t be due diligence unless they keep losing. Salary dump and tank is all it ever was.

[Carp4Cy]

When the decisions were made last offseason to trade Gray, Contreras, Donovan, etc. there was no evidence that this team would be anything close to a playoff team, even with those guys.

And acquiring "decent" SPs, etc. just to try to sneak into the playoffs has pretty much been the same mistake the organization had made for a decade already.

“No evidence”…maybe not 100% indisputable evidence but did they REALLY have NO idea “what they have” after the last several years of “seeing what they have”?

- they knew Wetherholt would make the team
-they chose to stick with Walker, so they must’ve at least expected modest improvement
-they expected Gorman to outperform Arenado
- they must’ve saw something in Leahy
- they were expected to have a upper tier defense
- they “had” a decent bullpen
- should’ve expected improvement from young vets (Burleson, McGreevy, Pallante, Liberatore, Winn, Victor Scott (at the time)
I know a few of these things didn’t go as planned but that’s how it goes, and a few others stepped up (Leahy and Walker for sure, Blaze and Church to a degree)

For all the talk and focus on improved development the last few years, did they think it wouldn’t work?

There was no reason to run off Sonny and Contreras because they were on fair contracts. On top of that, they could have added a good starter and a couple solid bullpen arms and still had a manageable payroll. Imagine had they paid up for Dylan Cease…

Cease
Sonny
McGreevy
Pallante
May
With Leahy and Liberatore back to pen

Add Contreras to our lineup and play Burleson against RHP only and find him DH ABs

THAT team be challenging the Brewers for the division and a first round bye right now, this year, and would at least be the top wildcard with a huge lead. Payroll would still be lower than the Mo years.

This team still can’t seem to project properly. I do see the improvements others see, but on the other
hand they also missed the opportunity to contend THIS year, but for some reason they thought it wouldn’t be due diligence unless they keep losing. Salary dump and tank is all it ever was.

That's the thing about an overly slow/conservative rebuild. MISSED OPPORTUNITIES that you will never know how close you might have been. And that downside is almost completely ignored by pretending they couldn't have happened anyway.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take (Gretzky)

[butsir01]

Their offense, while slightly less than adequate, can't overcome the poor pitching. It's putting pressure on guys to hit 5 run homers instead of letting the game come to you. I see Walker pushing to make it happen and taking swings he didn't take earlier in the season. I see the guys with warning track power trying to hit everything out. Partly because of that they aren't scoring as much which in turn makes the pitchers feel like they have no room for error. Then they have a bad outing and it just snowballs into an ugly season. They really miss Sonny and Wilson. This is what happens when you divest yourself of your top talent. Maybe it'll all work out but right now it's pretty ugly. It appears to me like they're going backwards. They had a leg up on the last playoff spot but poor play has them headed toward last place. Will they be held accountable? The franchise has certainly had a severe downturn. With everything going up, (groceries, gas, electric, etc) why would anyone plop down their valuable cash assets to support a team that aims for last place? I like talking baseball, but I've just about quit watching the Cards. Life is hard enough every day without supporting people trying to lose.(ownership)

Yes.

[butsir01]

This team’s problem is easy to identify: DeWitt.

Preach!

[hmoss859]

The problem is the owner makes too many baseball decisions

If he would back off and let Bloom do his job, the rebuild will be efficient and quick.

DeWitt vowed to Mo and his inner circle that after TLR left (he was thrilled) he was in complete control with trades and FA signings

He has blocked trades based on his personal like or disdain of certain players. He has ordered certain players traded.

He’s been a different owner after HackGate, the truth will never come out but he and Mo were complicit and Manfred saved their bacon.

The old man just needs to go, BD3 due to his Fredo persona, may let Bloom bloom