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C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

Franklin is a special talent that the Cardinals organization spent years seemingly immune to. The big righty is meant to be on the mound, and he employs two pitches that are at least above average right now and one pitch that is elite, capable of carrying the rest. If Franklin can build up innings, develop more of a changeup, and live on the fringes of the zone then he’ll be a rotation mainstay in the near and foreseeable future. If not, then he’s at least a backend of the bullpen piece who will fire up a fanbase.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:15 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

Not sure why Tanner Franklin was left out of this equation, but, this is what TCN had to say about him:

Franklin is a special talent that the Cardinals organization spent years seemingly immune to. The big righty is meant to be on the mound, and he employs two pitches that are at least above average right now and one pitch that is elite, capable of carrying the rest. If Franklin can build up innings, develop more of a changeup, and live on the fringes of the zone then he’ll be a rotation mainstay in the near and foreseeable future. If not, then he’s at least a backend of the bullpen piece who will fire up a fanbase.

His FB is ML quality running upwards of 102, sitting upper 90's. His cutter was the highest velocity in NCAA last year at 93 mph. His slider/curve has significant vertical and horizontal movement. He could be a fast riser. His make up is exciting and at 6'5" he looks every bit the part.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:15 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

Not sure why Tanner Franklin was left out of this equation, but, this is what TCN had to say about him:

Franklin is a special talent that the Cardinals organization spent years seemingly immune to. The big righty is meant to be on the mound, and he employs two pitches that are at least above average right now and one pitch that is elite, capable of carrying the rest. If Franklin can build up innings, develop more of a changeup, and live on the fringes of the zone then he’ll be a rotation mainstay in the near and foreseeable future. If not, then he’s at least a backend of the bullpen piece who will fire up a fanbase.

His FB is ML quality running upwards of 102, sitting upper 90's. His cutter was the highest velocity in NCAA last year at 93 mph. His slider/curve has significant vertical and horizontal movement. He could be a fast riser. His make up is exciting and at 6'5" he looks every bit the part.

Jatalk wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 06:40 am I am hoping Libby can be a 1 or 2. He made some improvement last year.

C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

2ninr wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 08:16 am It really is impossible to predict with any accuracy where these guys wind up. Look how far Hence has fallen

2ninr wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 08:16 am It really is impossible to predict with any accuracy where these guys wind up. Look how far Hence has fallen

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 10:04 am

2ninr wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 08:16 am It really is impossible to predict with any accuracy where these guys wind up. Look how far Hence has fallen

hence has fallen because of one ability.. availability

C-Unit wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:27 pm By 2027-28, where could we stand?

Here's how I see it:

____________________________

Tier A (potential top of rotation starters):
- Doyle

Tier B (potential #3-5 starters):
- Liberatore
- McGreevy
- Fitts
- Dobbins

Tier C (mlb wildcards):
- May

---------

Tier D (minor league potential SP):
- Mautz
- Henderson
- Hansen
- Bedell

Tier E (minor league high ceiling arms):
- Brandon Clarke
- Fajardo
- Chen Wei-Lin

____________________________

Tier F (controllable relievers):
- O'Brien
- Svanson
- Graceffo

- Raquet?
- Pushard?
- Fernandez?

Tier G (minor league potential RP):
- Granillo
- Shuster
- Gastelum
- Findlay

______________________________

Tier H (minor league wildcards):
- Mathews
- Hjerpe
- Roby
- Hence

______________________________

Let's see:

- I'm sure I could have rattled off more names for Tier D (or Tier G).
- In Tier E, I see these as pitchers who it would be a bonus if they developed as SP, but they have good enough stuff that they should be effective anyway in an MLB pen one day. And it may be a likely outcome for them.
- In Tier H, my basecase is if we ever receive MLB contributions from 1 or 2 of these names we would be very fortunate. As Hjerpe and Roby come back from TJ, I keep a candle lit that one or both might become an effective reliever with their power stuff, similar to the pitchers in Tier E). I included Mathews in this group only because of how off he was last year with all the walks and the hinting of shoulder issues. It just does not sound like a sure thing at all with him, which is a shame.

It's a very rough list and names could be moved to other categories. But my bottomline is that by 2027-28, there seems to be a good spread of names, many with very high ceiling, that could indiscriminately serve to fillout various roles both rotation and bullpen. We might be very pleased. We may find ourselves a #2 starter (trade or sign) away from having a very outstanding pitching staff.

Cranny wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 11:49 am

2ninr wrote: ↑26 Dec 2025 08:16 am It really is impossible to predict with any accuracy where these guys wind up. Look how far Hence has fallen

Or how good a pitcher can get with increased velocity, further developed secondary pitches, etc. How about a Cardinal prospect in 2017 who had an ERA of 4.31 and WHIP of 1.428 at Springfield? Gave up a hit per inning and struck out only 106 in 125 innings. Wasn’t considered a top pitching prospect in the season?