3-0-0 without Kyrou. 8-12-7 With Kyrou

[Lloyd Braun]

Is there a case to be made that the Blues are a more effective and structured team when Jordan Kyrou is not in the lineup?

While Kyrou possesses high-end offensive skill, his overall impact appears to be a systemic negative, eroding team defense, dragging down key performance indicators, and contributing to a significant organizational downturn since his ascension to a premium role

Just an interesting observation on the wins and losses this year

With Kyrou Out
Record: 3-0-0
Points %: 1.000
GFA: 3.00
GAA: 1.33
Diff: +5 (9 GF, 4 GA)

Kyrou IN
Record: 8-12-7
Points %: .426
GFA: 2.51
GAA: 3.70
Diff: -32 (68 GF, 100 GA)

That's 3 for 3 when out. And 8 for 27 when in.

Is Kyrou fundamentally incompatible with the necessary collective structure, particularly in the defensive zone and neutral zone transition?

Because it appears that Kyrou's style, while gifted offensively, creates a "black hole" effect that makes everyone around him worse.

* Kyrou's high-risk, high-reward neutral zone plays and tendency to give up the puck at the walls, when unsuccessful, create immediate odd-man rushes for the opposition. This forces defensemen to play a frantic, defensive-zone-coverage-first game, instead of contributing to the rush. It makes his center and defensive partners constantly cheating backward to cover for potential mistakes, fundamentally disrupting the five-man defensive structure.

* The drastic increase in goals allowed in his 27 games, suggests that the quality of scoring chances against is significantly higher when Kyrou is on the ice. Goalies cannot be expected to succeed when the structural breakdown in front of them is constant, which his minutes seem to facilitate. The team defense is better structured, more disciplined, and gives up fewer high-quality chances when he is absent, and the results show an immediate positive shift in goals for and against.

* In the last couple of wins, Schenn and others recently pointed to "Guys just buying in for one another" and "no complaints" when discussing the team's strong response to key injuries. This could suggest that the simplified, collective style of play enforced by JK's absence fosters a better, more unified locker room and on-ice culture?

* Why are we scoring more with him NOT in the lineup? The Blues posted a 4-goal game without him, which seemed impossible with this team for a weeks, even when Kyrou was in. Yet, Schenn and Holloway stepping up with three-point nights. Does this suggest that the pressure and focus on Kyrou as the main offensive driver may actually be detrimental, and a more balanced, four-line attack is more successful?

* The organization has shifted from being a consistent Stanley Cup contender with a winning culture and a robust points percentage above .600 to a bubble/fringe team with a significantly reduced organizational winning percentage. This decline coincides directly with Kyrou's starting role in the 2020-21 season and the commitment to Kyrou as an $8.125 million AAV, top-line player just a couple of years later. Is that coincidence, or one of the main culprits.

* 2 assists in 28 career playoff games - is concrete evidence that Jordan Kyrou is not a complete, two-way offensive creator when the pressure is highest. He is a one-dimensional shooter whose style is minimized in the postseason, resulting in a dramatic reduction in team success and overall offensive creativity

And he has only 1 career power play assist. This highlights an extreme tendency to be the shooter only, not a playmaker, even in the most structured, space-creating situation in hockey. For comparison, most elite playmaking forwards have an assist-to-goal ratio closer to 2:1 or 3:1 on the power play. Kyrou's is 0.25:1 ratio suggests he is a black hole for puck distribution.

5 on 5 In the regular season, Kyrou's game is built on utilizing his elite speed and hands to beat defenders one-on-one. While this generates offense for himself, the isolation rush Kyrou relies on is easily contained by opposing teams who prioritize clogging the neutral zone and collapsing in the defensive slot. The playoffs are defined by reduced time and space and a heightened commitment to team defense.

To get assists, it requires vision, cycling, and a pass-first mentality in certain situations. Kyrou's absurd assist total in the playoffs suggests that when facing playoff pressure, he defaults to shooting the puck or losing possession, rather than using his vision to feed linemates. He just isn't made for NHL level intense hockey.

Kyrou's tendency to either score or fail, without setting up others, forces his linemates to become passive, expecting him to be the sole finisher. In the playoffs, where goals are scarce, this makes the line predictable and ineffective when Kyrou isn't red-hot.

The best playoff teams use relentless forechecking and puck cycling to grind down opponents. Kyrou's profile suggests he is a liability in establishing and sustaining a cycle, as he favors rapid transition over grinding out offensive zone possession.

--- What to Do ---

Utilize the current interest in Kyrou, as reported, to move him immediately when healthy for:
1. Either a two-way forward who prioritizes responsible play
2. or a high-end draft pick—to fundamentally reset the team's on-ice identity.
3. or, Just get him the hell out of STL, irrespective of the return. Just his absence and the cap savings is more valuable.

Continuing to force Kyrou into a high-minute role will just perpetuate the downward trend in the organization's overall performance.

This 8 year experiment has ran its course.

[iowa blues fan]

Goaltenders have had some great saves the last couple of games. I don’t think you can attribute that to Kyrou

[juan good eye]

I hate the player type Kyrou is and will celebrate the day he is exorcised, however…

3 games is the definition of small sample size and the Blues were lucky to win either of the last two let alone both. Let’s wait and see.

Also if the winning trend continues others would notice the variable which likely doesn’t help drive up demand for Kyrou.

[DawgDad]

Gut feel, small sample size. No question the Blues seemed to be rolling four more 'homogeneous' lines but when Kyrou is on he's a dynamic game-breaker of sorts and can be plus player for long stretches.

Did Kyrou get out of the way of Holloway and Schenn? Perhaps. NHL hockey is largely driven by synergistic line mates, pairs or trios. We need to see more, consistency.

[theograce]

Blues have a winning record without Thomas. Sit them both and move Sunny up!!!!!

[theograce]

Blues 13-1-1 without Parayko

Laughing

[Sunny's Teeth]

TLDR.

[ScalesofJustice]

Goaltenders have had some great saves the last couple of games. I don’t think you can attribute that to Kyrou

Bingo.
If the Blues continue to get this stellar goal tending from both Hofer and Binny going forward the win streak will be more than 2 games.

[Tony Palazzolo]

v cccccccwqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqa2366666666666666
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[hotrivets]

Agree and none of this is new. Imagine being the other 18 guys who have to adjust their game so you can float and snipe. If he at least worked harder to find clean ice every shift and won more puck battles he would not be such a negative. He has become a better back checker because he has good hands but that still does not make him a complete player.

[Bacchk29]

Op has an agenda against Kyrou well documented on the forum over the years. Hofer stopped 41 shots Saturday team badly outplayed got 2 pts zero to do with 25. Schenn has his first 3 pts game in 2 years MTL goalie gets demoted day after game because he was so bad again nothing to do to with the player. If this was true what the OP was saying, Army would have moved 25 well before his NTC kicked in and taken a loss.

[Cahokanut]

Cheat notes on how to bull [shirt] your way to winning a debate.....
Lots of words.


We have a coach and GM who would rather have three lines of grinders and one that can score, but play defense. Then Play in the corners waiting for a mistake, to win mid season games 2-1.
With full buy in. This only works when goaltending is the best in the league and mostly never past 5 post season games.

But that's only if the best goaltending in the league can hold on and make the playoffs.

Once the skilled team start working in the corners(playoffs)
We will once again get ready for another mid round pick and posters selling it as genius because he had the same number of goals as 12 other players in his league.


Who needs Kyrou. When we have Army's friends selling [shirt].

[Ziggy3]

Fascinating analysis. Now, can someone write a few pages about how Kyrou affected the play of his teammates last year? Particularly when his linemates were Schenn and Holloway? Be sure to include plenty of relevant stats like +/- and overall team record...

[callitwhatyouwant]

Fascinating analysis. Now, can someone write a few pages about how Kyrou affected the play of his teammates last year? Particularly when his linemates were Schenn and Holloway? Be sure to include plenty of relevant stats like +/- and overall team record...

I think the worst thing that happened to Kyrou this year and you might be seeing it now with Schenn/Holloway, is that they broke the line up to test out other stuff in preseason. You had had a couple known commodities going into the season. You knew Fowler/Parayko was a top pairing in the league to end the year last year. You knew that Broberg/Faulk played really well together. You knew that the Kyrou/Schenn/Hollywood line was your best line for 30 games until Hollywood got injured.

None of those were small sample sizes. And Monty broke up every single one of those lines. That's on him. I'm not a big fan of Kyrou. But until recently where Buchy has had a reincarnation over the last 10 games, your top line from the beginning of the year didn't do anything, and your middle lines were jumbled up and no one got going. Now you have Schenner and Hollywood making plays. Which is making it easier for the top line to have better games. This was on Monty. I think you had a solid 1-2 line and 4th line. You had to experiment with the 3rd. He instead put the whole thing in a blender.

[Ziggy3]

Fascinating analysis. Now, can someone write a few pages about how Kyrou affected the play of his teammates last year? Particularly when his linemates were Schenn and Holloway? Be sure to include plenty of relevant stats like +/- and overall team record...

I think the worst thing that happened to Kyrou this year and you might be seeing it now with Schenn/Holloway, is that they broke the line up to test out other stuff in preseason. You had had a couple known commodities going into the season. You knew Fowler/Parayko was a top pairing in the league to end the year last year. You knew that Broberg/Faulk played really well together. You knew that the Kyrou/Schenn/Hollywood line was your best line for 30 games until Hollywood got injured.

None of those were small sample sizes. And Monty broke up every single one of those lines. That's on him. I'm not a big fan of Kyrou. But until recently where Buchy has had a reincarnation over the last 10 games, your top line from the beginning of the year didn't do anything, and your middle lines were jumbled up and no one got going. Now you have Schenner and Hollywood making plays. Which is making it easier for the top line to have better games. This was on Monty. I think you had a solid 1-2 line and 4th line. You had to experiment with the 3rd. He instead put the whole thing in a blender.

Yeah, this surprised me from the beginning. If nothing else it seemed like there was a pretty good template for how the forward lines should go, but it seemed like there was no tolerance to give them even a little time to work through a rough start.

The 3rd pairing was an immediate red alert though, so I'm not surprised the D got shaken up quickly.

But yeah, have to wonder how much of the poor start might be due to overcoaching...

[DawgDad]

Fascinating analysis. Now, can someone write a few pages about how Kyrou affected the play of his teammates last year? Particularly when his linemates were Schenn and Holloway? Be sure to include plenty of relevant stats like +/- and overall team record...

I think the worst thing that happened to Kyrou this year and you might be seeing it now with Schenn/Holloway, is that they broke the line up to test out other stuff in preseason. You had had a couple known commodities going into the season. You knew Fowler/Parayko was a top pairing in the league to end the year last year. You knew that Broberg/Faulk played really well together. You knew that the Kyrou/Schenn/Hollywood line was your best line for 30 games until Hollywood got injured.

None of those were small sample sizes. And Monty broke up every single one of those lines. That's on him. I'm not a big fan of Kyrou. But until recently where Buchy has had a reincarnation over the last 10 games, your top line from the beginning of the year didn't do anything, and your middle lines were jumbled up and no one got going. Now you have Schenner and Hollywood making plays. Which is making it easier for the top line to have better games. This was on Monty. I think you had a solid 1-2 line and 4th line. You had to experiment with the 3rd. He instead put the whole thing in a blender.

Yes, but injuries and slumps were MAJOR factors driving change, and a 20 yr old center.