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If I understand right, they can vote for 8 players (per Goold's chat yesterday) Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Delgado. Sorry all, I don't consider the roids stuff. I've always said we don't know for sure who did or didn't use. Nor do we know how much it helped their stats, especially if the pitcher and hitter both used, who got the most benefit. Or did offset? Just too much unknown, so to me it's not issue. I hate that some of them cheated but I just don't see how to normalize the situation with so much unknown.OldRed wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:43 pm Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Carlos Delgado, Jeff Kent, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Gary Sheffield and Fernando Valenzuela were revealed Monday by the Hall of Fame as this year’s candidates on the Era Committee ballot.
Who do you have?
As always, it a shame Kenny Boyer is not considered any longer.
Probably? I don't know when you think/assume Bonds started taking steroids, but most people assume it was after the 2000 season (in 2001 he hit 73 HRs). IMO, he could have retired at any point in the mid to late 90s and would have been a slam dunk HOF inductee. Heck even after 1993 he was at 60 bWAR (good rule of thumb for HOR enshrinement) and had just won his third MVP (in a four year stretch). If he called it quits all of the sudden I think the voters would look at it as a top athlete walking away in his prime (actually just like Jordan suddenly retiring in 1993). After 2000, he was at 494 HRs and 471 steals, and 111.4 bWAR (if you care about such things).KeeptheRamsinSTL wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 07:55 am I think the only guys who have the stats for the Hall of Fame are the steroid guys. The other players were very good but do not have the numbers for the Hall of Fame in my opinion. Dale Murphy was an incredible player in his 20s but wasn't the same in his 30s.
Barry Bonds was his generation's Willie Mays type player. He probably would have made the Hall of Fame if he didn't start using steroids.
I personally enjoyed watching the guys on steroids. Baseball was more exciting for me with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and the rest of the guys on steroids. I do understand the other side though. As much as I enjoyed watching these guys play it was personally hard for me to see Bonds pass Hank Aaron's home run record.
Nice write.HorseTrader wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 07:34 amIf I understand right, they can vote for 8 players (per Goold's chat yesterday) Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Delgado. Sorry all, I don't consider the roids stuff. I've always said we don't know for sure who did or didn't use. Nor do we know how much it helped their stats, especially if the pitcher and hitter both used, who got the most benefit. Or did offset? Just too much unknown, so to me it's not issue. I hate that some of them cheated but I just don't see how to normalize the situation with so much unknown.OldRed wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:43 pm Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Carlos Delgado, Jeff Kent, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Gary Sheffield and Fernando Valenzuela were revealed Monday by the Hall of Fame as this year’s candidates on the Era Committee ballot.
Who do you have?
As always, it a shame Kenny Boyer is not considered any longer.
Yea people assume they don’t know he could have been using them his entire career his entire career could have been built on them can’t trust a cheater leave all of them outrbirules wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:11 amProbably? I don't know when you think/assume Bonds started taking steroids, but most people assume it was after the 2000 season (in 2001 he hit 73 HRs). IMO, he could have retired at any point in the mid to late 90s and would have been a slam dunk HOF inductee. Heck even after 1993 he was at 60 bWAR (good rule of thumb for HOR enshrinement) and had just won his third MVP (in a four year stretch). If he called it quits all of the sudden I think the voters would look at it as a top athlete walking away in his prime (actually just like Jordan suddenly retiring in 1993). After 2000, he was at 494 HRs and 471 steals, and 111.4 bWAR (if you care about such things).KeeptheRamsinSTL wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 07:55 am I think the only guys who have the stats for the Hall of Fame are the steroid guys. The other players were very good but do not have the numbers for the Hall of Fame in my opinion. Dale Murphy was an incredible player in his 20s but wasn't the same in his 30s.
Barry Bonds was his generation's Willie Mays type player. He probably would have made the Hall of Fame if he didn't start using steroids.
I personally enjoyed watching the guys on steroids. Baseball was more exciting for me with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and the rest of the guys on steroids. I do understand the other side though. As much as I enjoyed watching these guys play it was personally hard for me to see Bonds pass Hank Aaron's home run record.
You can do the same thing with Clemens IMO, whereas Sosa and McGwire's candidacy is built entirely on the back of steroid fueled achievements.
That was it rbis.rbirules wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:11 am Probably? I don't know when you think/assume Bonds started taking steroids, but most people assume it was after the 2000 season (in 2001 he hit 73 HRs). IMO, he could have retired at any point in the mid to late 90s and would have been a slam dunk HOF inductee. Heck even after 1993 he was at 60 bWAR (good rule of thumb for HOR enshrinement) and had just won his third MVP (in a four year stretch). If he called it quits all of the sudden I think the voters would look at it as a top athlete walking away in his prime (actually just like Jordan suddenly retiring in 1993). After 2000, he was at 494 HRs and 471 steals, and 111.4 bWAR (if you care about such things).
You can do the same thing with Clemens IMO, whereas Sosa and McGwire's candidacy is built entirely on the back of steroid fueled achievements.
Yep, I'm fine with people viewing his accomplishments however they wish in light of what we are more certain of later in his career. I think it's clear he used starting in 2001, and going forward, before that I have no idea (just like I have no idea for 99% of baseball players in that era).Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:28 amYea people assume they don’t know he could have been using them his entire career his entire career could have been built on them can’t trust a cheater leave all of them outrbirules wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:11 amProbably? I don't know when you think/assume Bonds started taking steroids, but most people assume it was after the 2000 season (in 2001 he hit 73 HRs). IMO, he could have retired at any point in the mid to late 90s and would have been a slam dunk HOF inductee. Heck even after 1993 he was at 60 bWAR (good rule of thumb for HOR enshrinement) and had just won his third MVP (in a four year stretch). If he called it quits all of the sudden I think the voters would look at it as a top athlete walking away in his prime (actually just like Jordan suddenly retiring in 1993). After 2000, he was at 494 HRs and 471 steals, and 111.4 bWAR (if you care about such things).KeeptheRamsinSTL wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 07:55 am I think the only guys who have the stats for the Hall of Fame are the steroid guys. The other players were very good but do not have the numbers for the Hall of Fame in my opinion. Dale Murphy was an incredible player in his 20s but wasn't the same in his 30s.
Barry Bonds was his generation's Willie Mays type player. He probably would have made the Hall of Fame if he didn't start using steroids.
I personally enjoyed watching the guys on steroids. Baseball was more exciting for me with Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and the rest of the guys on steroids. I do understand the other side though. As much as I enjoyed watching these guys play it was personally hard for me to see Bonds pass Hank Aaron's home run record.
You can do the same thing with Clemens IMO, whereas Sosa and McGwire's candidacy is built entirely on the back of steroid fueled achievements.