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The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

I believe the run would count.

Something similar happened to our slow pitch softball team one time, and the umpire allowed the run to count.

I still believe he was wrong. To me, in a force play situation, if a runner does not reach their base regardless of a tag or the force out, the run should not count.

if someone can cite a rule that is different from my belief I would be interested to hear it.

sp25 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:57 am Something similar happened to our slow pitch softball team one time, and the umpire allowed the run to count.

I still believe he was wrong. To me, in a force play situation, if a runner does not reach their base regardless of a tag or the force out, the run should not count.

if someone can cite a rule that is different from my belief I would be interested to hear it.

I see your point. But once the runner crosses home, and the hitter is still not tagged out, the pitcher could still turn and throw to first, and the force out is enforced. No run.

The debate here isn’t about crossing the plate before an out, but the means by which to get that out. I say he’s out.

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

My understanding of the rule is the run counts.

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:35 am

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not a good example.

A force out is a force out. A put out at first as the third out carries the same result. The hitter is forced to move to another base. The way or time he is put out I not relative to the play.

That’s my position. Out.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:40 am

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not a good example.

A force out is a force out. A put out at first as the third out carries the same result. The hitter is forced to move to another base. The way or time he is put out I not relative to the play.

That’s my position. Out.

Please read my last posts on the subject.

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The run would not count.
The tag attempt - successful or not -does not negate the fact that it was a force out situation and the batter would be out for failing to touch first base.
The "time play" exception would therefore not apply.

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:43 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:40 am

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not a good example.

A force out is a force out. A put out at first as the third out carries the same result. The hitter is forced to move to another base. The way or time he is put out I not relative to the play.

That’s my position. Out.

Please read my last posts on the subject.

I did. I still don’t understand.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

That’s what I was wondering. Why would the batter retreat, or the pitcher chase him no less, back towards home plate? Maybe I’m envisioning the scenario incorrectly. Is it a case where the pitcher fields the ball close to the batter and quickly reaches for a tag and the runner jumps back a little or something?

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:35 am

OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:22 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The hitter/runner would be automatically out if he retreats back towards home plate, he's not allowed to do that.

No run if the hitter who retreated back towards home plate is the third out.

I don't agree with that. If the run scores before the out I believe the run counts.

Example: the run will count if the runner crossed the plate before the out was recorded. For example, on April 28, 2007, the Indians recorded a double play by catching a fly ball and catching the runner off first base. The runner from third base had already crossed the plate (after tagging up properly), so the run counted.

I also remember a similar play in a Cardinals game years ago.

Not if it's the 3rd out of the inning OR

Of course the runs counts if it's only the 1st or 2nd out, but NOT if it's the 3rd out.

The rule is pretty simple, a runner can NOT RETREAT back towards home plate after hitting the ball.

If he does, he's immediately ruled out and the run is not allowed.

Play: With two out and one on (R2) in the top of the 3rd inning of the Cubs-Pirates game, batter Baez hit a 0-2 fastball from Pirates pitcher Tyler Anderson on the ground to third baseman Erik Gonzalez, who threw to first baseman Will Craig as baserunner R2 Contreras ran toward and rounded third base. When Craig stepped off of first base and down the line toward home plate to receive Gonzalez's throw, batter-runner Baez began retreating toward home plate with Craig in pursuit and Contreras still advancing toward home as well. Baez and Contreras arrived at the dirt circle surrounding home plate at around the same time, and Craig opted to throw to catcher Michael Perez to attempt to retire Contreras, whom Additon declared safe. Perez then threw wildly to first base and Baez took second base on the fielder's choice + error.

Different scenario.

In the original post once the hitter becomes a baserunner he's NOT ALLOWED to retreat back toward home plate and is automatically out.

But I could be wrong, maybe he can retreat.........now I'm confussed.

Melville wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 10:47 am

CCard wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 09:47 am The situation of a the bases loaded and the batter taps the ball up the first base line. The pitcher gets to the ball and instead of throwing it to first he turns and chases the batter back toward home. Before the batter is tagged out the runner from third crosses the plate. Does the run score? I assumed it would be considered a force out but AI from a search said that it's considered a "tag" play and not a force out. It almost happened last night and it occurred to me that I really didn't know. So, experts here, let me know.

The run would not count.
The tag attempt - successful or not -does not negate the fact that it was a force out situation and the batter would be out for failing to touch first base.
The "time play" exception would therefore not apply.

You are wrong again.