Sad thing is we would have got a wild card spot with minor changes

[Nadam23]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

[scoutyjones2]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Monday, Monday
Bah-da bah-da-da-da
Bah-da bah-da-da-da
Bah-da bah-da-da-da
Monday, Monday, so good to me
Monday mornin', it was all I hoped it would be
Oh Monday mornin', Monday mornin' couldn't guarantee

[Eyelids64]

Helsley cost us several games..maybe a playoff spot

[Bomber1]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Sorry, have to disagree.

Adding at the deadline would have required us to give up prospects.

This team needs to accumulate more prospects, not less.

[scoutyjones2]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Put names to the following:

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker

Easy to state but what was available and what would it have cost?

Monday morning QB..

[Carp4Cy]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Agree. And I would’ve love to trade for an OFer who could help us now And for the next several years, like Oneil Cruz or the switch hitting Bryan Reynolds. Both have control and or contracts that are a tiny fraction of Soto but still enough that the Pirates would be willing to sell off if asked nicely. Also Robert and some Orioles OFers could have been pried away. All are ripe for a change of scenery bounce back.

[Carp4Cy]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Put names to the following:

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker

Easy to state but what was available and what would it have cost?

Monday morning QB..

See my post above re OF. A 3 way trade involving Helsley might have gotten things started for one of those guys.

The other names we didn’t do are obvious and were available. Bring up McGreevey sooner instead of Fedde and promote JjW when Everybody got hurt as the OP listed.

We had bullets we never used.

[scoutyjones2]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Put names to the following:

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker

Easy to state but what was available and what would it have cost?

Monday morning QB..

See my post above re OF. A 3 way trade involving Helsley might have gotten things started for one of those guys.

yeah, none of those guys were moved. What teams in a 3 way? and it would require more than Helsley

Cruz, another lefty bat, 90 OPS+, suspect OF defense...not a decent OFer, 3 years till FA

Reynolds is owed $74 million till age 35..he's not even a 2 WAR player, suspect defense also




And I want the poster who made the claim to put vest a complete opinion as there wasn't really anything available...

[Chip Matthews]

Helsley cost us several games..maybe a playoff spot

Helsley blew 5 saves while winning 3 games for the Cardinals.

Pallante is 1 and 10 in the 2nd half. Now look at what Fedde provided in his time here this year.

Blaming Helsley is ignorant.

Roycroft is much more to blame as well.

[bretto12]

Why would you want to sneak into the playoffs with the 3rd wild card slot. That does not make you competitive for going to the WS. Forget about making the playoffs and build a team that can actually succeed. It will take a couple of years.

Have some patience and build a winner and not just a .500 team/

[BrockFloodMaris]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Sorry, have to disagree.

Adding at the deadline would have required us to give up prospects.

This team needs to accumulate more prospects, not less.

Agree with ^^^^^^this^^^^^^ 100%.^^^^^^ There are no free lunches at the trade deadline.

[imetsatchelpaige]

And we would have washed out in the first round.

[peterman'srealitytour]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

I don’t even think adding guys from outside the organization was necessary.

Bringing up Wetherholt as you suggest and bringing up McGreevy sooner might have done it. A few less Fedde starts and more McGreevy starts could only have helped.

If someone wants to argue that trading prospects for rentals isn’t consistent with a “reset”, ok I get it. But when you don’t play the best guys already in your organization when you have a shot at the wildcard, it sends a God awful message to those young guys you are grooming that winning is not important. Not to mention the fan that you’ve already p!zzed off.

Any wonder attendance has cratered?

[CorneliusWolfe]

Probably any of the following three things would have led to us winning a wild card. I know we're planning for the next 2-5 years but not sure why there wasn't any urgency when it was within reach the last 2 months. Yeah we aren't a playoff caliber team and wouldn't have made it far. But it was within reach.

If we would have only done one or two of these things:

-Added one decent veteran starting pitcher (no big money lengthy contract) at the trade deadline and demoted Palante
-Added a decent outfielder (no big money lengthy contract) at trade deadline and demoted Walker
-Brought up Wetherholt in late August and early September when we had all of the injuries to our better hitters and our offense was struggling. Burleson, Donovan, Arendado, Winn, Contreras have all missed time last month and we could have used a great bat addition and some energy and excitement.

Our bullpen has actually been fine even with the trades.

None of those things above would have significantly changed our rebuilding strategy for the next few years and we probably would have made the playoffs. I just hate finishing 3 games back of a playoff spot. That's pretty close.

Sad.

Agree. And I would’ve love to trade for an OFer who could help us now And for the next several years, like Oneil Cruz or the switch hitting Bryan Reynolds. Both have control and or contracts that are a tiny fraction of Soto but still enough that the Pirates would be willing to sell off if asked nicely. Also Robert and some Orioles OFers could have been pried away. All are ripe for a change of scenery bounce back.

Haven’t you heard? We MUST lose 110 games and collect lottery ticket prospects, or we can never win again. Also, your roster must project as the world series favorite before the season even starts otherwise don’t bother trying.

[JuanAgosto]

Blaming Helsley isn't right and doesn't tell the whole story. Hes blown games for the Mets which has benefited StL.

The rotation hurt this team. Had Mo done the smart thing, he would've dumped Fedde last winter and added a decent starter. He then could've used McGreevy to replace Pallante. Those two moves might have put this team into a WC spot.

[Absolut]

Pallante and Fedde combined 9-25

To put that in perspective, worse than the colorado Rockies of this year, but slightly better than last years white Sox.

Cards have rolled these two bums out 51 times this year.

To make it even funnier, fedde has a 3.38 era with the brewers