Mistrust?

[JuanAgosto]

In the last couple days I've read the following:

1. Oli and Brown go on radio and "criticize" Walker for lack of preparation.

2. Walker has been listening to Winn for hitting advice.

3. Gorman is being advised by Arenado for defensive tips at 3b.

Im all for teamwork and players helping each other. Kudos to these guys. But is this a signal that maybe they aren't getting enough or proper coaching from the staff? Or they distrust the staff?

It was posted a while back that Brown doesn't work on mechanics. Im guessing he's a video and analytics type of instructor?

[Ozziesfan41]

In the last couple days I've read the following:

1. Oli and Brown go on radio and "criticize" Walker for lack of preparation.

2. Walker has been listening to Winn for hitting advice.

3. Gorman is being advised by Arenado for defensive tips at 3b.

Im all for teamwork and players helping each other. Kudos to these guys. But is this a signal that maybe they aren't getting enough or proper coaching from the staff? Or they distrust the staff?

It was posted a while back that Brown doesn't work on mechanics. Im guessing he's a video and analytics type of instructor?

Well whoever walker is listening to he needs to stop listening to them and start listening to the coaches because sucks

[CorneliusWolfe]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

[Jatalk]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

Sorry have to disagree. True it’s not an instructional league but coaching duties go well beyond game planning. You have a hitting coach to coach hitting. You have a pitching coach to coach pitching. They don’t watch game film, take hitting and fielding practice just to game plan. There is constant tweaking and instruction of how to play better.

[Cranny]

Part of being a pitching coach or hitting coach is to present strengths and weaknesses of both an opponent’s batters and pitchers prior to each upcoming series.

[sdaltons]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

Uhhh no. If a player is slumping, the relevant coach should be working with them to figure it out. The coach should be presenting tweaks to the batting stance or pitching delivery. Maybe they could be coming up with mental challenges to help get the player out of their head. Things like that.

If the players aren't getting that, or don't feel what they are getting is helping, I can't blame them for exploring other avenues. And it definitely suggests failure on the part of the coaching staff.

[Dicktar2023]

It doesn't have be either Walker's fault or the staff's fault, it can be both.

There is zero leadership on this team...not from the manager, not from veteran players. That's a toxic environment both for young players and the coaches trying to get through to them. It can't just be middle aged guys yapping at you about launch angles, young guys need role models. They need to see players who stay up all night watching video and then are the first taking BP the next day. They need to have a manager they trust to play them in the right situations.

That said, Walker is a special case. He obviously doesn't have the mental fortitude it takes to be a MLBer and it's reasonable to wonder at this point if he ever will. We're getting into the 'stuff you can't teach territory.' The organization wants to say this is his own fault, and if he's not trying 100%, then that's reasonable. But is it a coincidence that this hot young player who isn't mentally prepared for MLB skipped AAA? Or was expected to learn a totally new position at the ML level? That in his earliest MLB days when he was hitting ok, got shipped back to Memphis to tinker with his swing?

Walker's failure is a group effort. Hopefully the kid gets out of this mess and has a chance to succeed somewhere else.

[BrockFloodMaris]

In the last couple days I've read the following:

1. Oli and Brown go on radio and "criticize" Walker for lack of preparation.

2. Walker has been listening to Winn for hitting advice.

3. Gorman is being advised by Arenado for defensive tips at 3b.

Im all for teamwork and players helping each other. Kudos to these guys. But is this a signal that maybe they aren't getting enough or proper coaching from the staff? Or they distrust the staff?

It was posted a while back that Brown doesn't work on mechanics. Im guessing he's a video and analytics type of instructor?

I think this is a question of emotional maturity on the part of the young players. Most of them have succeeded through little league, club ball, high school ball and for some college ball, drawing mostly from their physical talent. This strategy largely won't work MLB. They need to learn to listen to direction and guidance, and constantly make adjustments in order to succeed. The smart ones do those things. The less smart ones don't.

[imadangman]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

True but remember, when Gray came here he let Mozeliak know about the "missing personnel." What do you think that personnel does in other organizations?

[Strummer Jones]

I see no problem with players coaching other players.

I remember at the end of Andy Benes' career when he was just getting lit up every five days. Then, we trade for Chuck Finley and Finley teaches Benes his split finger grip. Complete turnaround. He finished up pretty decently here. Nobody was putting Dave Duncan over the coals for Finley getting Benes out of the ditch and not Dunc.

I don't know the whole Walker story, only what people have been saying. I started out the year being a big fan of Brant Brown and what most of our guys were doing on the hitting side. A lot of us were. I'm going to give Brown the benefit of the doubt. This isn't the first time we've heard that Walker might not be all that coachable. We heard the same thing last year, too. Yeah, the hitting's gone to pot, but I also can't help but notice that the hitting started to crumble when the pitching really started to collapse.

[Bob Kunush]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

Uhhh no. If a player is slumping, the relevant coach should be working with them to figure it out. The coach should be presenting tweaks to the batting stance or pitching delivery. Maybe they could be coming up with mental challenges to help get the player out of their head. Things like that.

If the players aren't getting that, or don't feel what they are getting is helping, I can't blame them for exploring other avenues. And it definitely suggests failure on the part of the coaching staff.

So in your mind the failure of the player is on the coaches but the player is blameless? Maybe he just isn't going to cut it as a major league player. It happens all the time to players who have talent but lack the instincts to adjust. Walker would not be the first prospect to fail. Baseball is littered with them.

So many of you have an agenda against the staff and see everything that happens through that lens. You lack objectivity. Walker has had dozens of people try to help him. He does not seem to possess a concept of the strike zone and that is on him.

[sdaltons]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

Uhhh no. If a player is slumping, the relevant coach should be working with them to figure it out. The coach should be presenting tweaks to the batting stance or pitching delivery. Maybe they could be coming up with mental challenges to help get the player out of their head. Things like that.

If the players aren't getting that, or don't feel what they are getting is helping, I can't blame them for exploring other avenues. And it definitely suggests failure on the part of the coaching staff.

So in your mind the failure of the player is on the coaches but the player is blameless? Maybe he just isn't going to cut it as a major league player. It happens all the time to players who have talent but lack the instincts to adjust. Walker would not be the first prospect to fail. Baseball is littered with them.

So many of you have an agenda against the staff and see everything that happens through that lens. You lack objectivity. Walker has had dozens of people try to help him. He does not seem to possess a concept of the strike zone and that is on him.

No.

There's gray here. The poster I responded to seemed to think the coaches were blameless. You seem to think the player deserves 100% of the blame, which means you view it the same as the other poster.

My view is both the players and coaches deserve some of the blame. These guys have spent a great deal of their lives mashing baseballs with ease. When it suddenly stops coming easy, they need a support system to help them make adjustments and figure it out.

If that isn't happening, that's a failure on the coaching staff. If it is happening and the player isn't hearing it, that's a failure on the player. My take is the coaches likely are trying and the player may be open to receiving it, but for whatever reason it isn't getting through. Perhaps both sides need to explore other methods to deliver the message. A sign of this would be that a player is seeking out other voices.

Coaches, like teachers and bosses, must understand that all players are different and a style that works with one may not work with another. If they can't adapt accordingly, coaching probably isn't for them.

I sure do hope this is objective enough for you.

[JuanAgosto]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

I disagree in part. Instruction is needed at every level. That is the purpose of coaching staffs. Yes, they game plan. But work should also be done regarding mechanics.

[BrockFloodMaris]

In the last couple days I've read the following:

1. Oli and Brown go on radio and "criticize" Walker for lack of preparation.

2. Walker has been listening to Winn for hitting advice.

3. Gorman is being advised by Arenado for defensive tips at 3b.

Im all for teamwork and players helping each other. Kudos to these guys. But is this a signal that maybe they aren't getting enough or proper coaching from the staff? Or they distrust the staff?

It was posted a while back that Brown doesn't work on mechanics. Im guessing he's a video and analytics type of instructor?

I think it is natural for players to seek solutions from many different sources, some documented, some not. I think that there is plenty of instruction, guidance and resources available from the team staff. I think it is important to remember that these are kids, and they aren't all completely ready to listen and hear and change.

[hugeCardfan]

MLB is not an instructional league. It’s supposed to be about production and winning. In the not so distant past, if you weren’t good enough you didn’t get to hang around like a useless (redacted).

The coaches are here to game plan and their necks are in the line if they get out-coached. They don’t have time to give A-ball lessons to dumb (bleep) who have not yet grasped the nuances of the game or are too lazy to be a professional and work on their own obvious weaknesses.

Sorry have to disagree. True it’s not an instructional league but coaching duties go well beyond game planning. You have a hitting coach to coach hitting. You have a pitching coach to coach pitching. They don’t watch game film, take hitting and fielding practice just to game plan. There is constant tweaking and instruction of how to play better.

Agree. Furthermore, players are always going to seek help from players who seem to have mastered what they are struggling with. That has always been a part of the game.

[Voldemort]

WRT hitting, Paul Nyman had an interesting quote that, "one is only capable of seeing what they are capable of seeing." IOWs, even if Walker watched the video, does he understand how to break down the video?