OT: Aroldis Chapman

[OldRed]

Is he a future HOFer?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ar01.shtml

[rockondlouie]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

[ecleme22]

Wow, he's having a great season.

Probably a HOFer. I would like to see him get 400 saves though.

[The Nard]

Didn’t he have some issues with weapons and/or domestic violence? Why wasn’t he given the Trevor Bauer treatment?

[Francis Park Thug]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

3 former Cardinals in that very short list.

[Ozziesfan41]

Didn’t he have some issues with weapons and/or domestic violence? Why wasn’t he given the Trevor Bauer treatment?

Because from what I’ve read about him he’s considered a good teammate Bauer was hated by a lot of his teammates. If a teams going to take a chance on a player they probably don’t want to do it on a clubhouse cancer

[OldRed]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

Chapman has 359 saves. More saves than HOFers Wilhelm 228, Sutter 300, Gossage 310, and Fingers 341. He only needs 21 more to catch Eckersley.

[rockondlouie]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

3 former Cardinals in that very short list.

Then toss in Hungo---Izzy---Worrell---Helsley and go way back to the 60's for Hoerner!

Cardinals have had some stud closers!

[rockondlouie]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

Chapman has 359 saves. More saves than HOFers Wilhelm 228, Sutter 300, Gossage 310, and Fingers 341. He only needs 21 more to catch Eckersley.

More saves alone isn't enough.

Not discounting Chapman but he's not as good as Sutter, Gossage, Fingers or Eck.

-Sutter has a CY Young Award + four more Top 6 finishes

-Fingers has a CY Young Award & an MVP Award

-Eck has a CY Young Award & an MVP Award

-Goose had five Top 6 CY finishes and was a nine time all-star

-Wilhelm ended a 21 year career w/a 2.52 ERA as the first true closer in MLB history, in a era when saves simply weren't accumulated (starters often went nine) like they've been the past fifty years.

Chapman has only one Top 10 CY finish but is an eight time all-star, he's got a shot somewhere down the road to get in.

[renostl]

Wow, he's having a great season.

Probably a HOFer. I would like to see him get 400 saves though.

He's had an absolute great career, HOF maybe.

He became a hired gun, a bullpen add after 2022 or he'd
be a little closer to that 400 mark.

[sp25]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

3 former Cardinals in that very short list.

4 if you count Fingers, whom the Cardinals had briefly in the off season from San Diego before he was traded to Milwaukee

[OldRed]

He still brings the heat.

I thought it was an interesting subject about his career and him possibly making the HOF.

[An Old Friend]

Didn’t he have some issues with weapons and/or domestic violence? Why wasn’t he given the Trevor Bauer treatment?

He didn’t hit anyone when he fired his gun
He pushed and choked (allegedly) her before the whole #MeToo movement went viral

And JMHO, but baseball seems to take a kid gloves approach when non-US born players are involved in incidents (Aroldis, Ozuna, Arozarena).

[Swuhgen]

Is he a future HOFer?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ar01.shtml

Yes. He’s a lock.

[Rojo Johnson]

Not a 1st ballot for sure.

There are only nine closers in: Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, Mariano Rivera, and Billy Wagner

Chapman is borderline but he's got a shot down the line to get in.

3 former Cardinals in that very short list.

Then toss in Hungo---Izzy---Worrell---Helsley and go way back to the 60's for Hoerner!

Cardinals have had some stud closers!

Don’t you dare forget Barney Schultz with his knuckle-whatever ball! He’s a big reason we won the World Series in ’64!

[DwaininAztec]

Both Hoyt Wilhelm and Dennis Eckersley spent some time as starters.

Yes, after many changes in the way "saves" were figured, today's system as the easiest way to get a "save." There were many very good "firemen" out there in the late '50s and early '60s, such as Lindy McDaniel, Elroy Face, Ron Perranoski, and others. These guys regularly threw 2 and 3 inning to get their "save," while also playing the role of a "fireman" who came in when the opposition was challenging to take the lead no matter what inning.