Church vs. Scott

[EastCoastDave]

It’s been fun watching Nathan Church over the past couple of series, especially last night when he got his first hit and first homer. He’s played superb defense in center and has showed off his very strong arm. Watching last night, I began thinking that I’d like to see more of him the rest of the year. But that would mean that Victor Scott II would see less time when he returns from IL, likely stunting his development. I’ve no idea how either player will develop over the next several years, but I like both players. Each plays very good defense, which is essential for a center fielder. I don’t know enough about Church’s minor league career, but I do wonder why he’s getting to the majors at age 25. Scott is 24 with a couple of years of experience in the Majors. Is Church worth a look as an everyday player at the expense of Scott? Where does Church fit in with the Cards? Given Church’s age, it seems that if he’s not in Majors next year, he’ll never make here. Agree?

[sikeston bulldog2]

It’s been fun watching Nathan Church over the past couple of series, especially last night when he got his first hit and first homer. He’s played superb defense in center and has showed off his very strong arm. Watching last night, I began thinking that I’d like to see more of him the rest of the year. But that would mean that Victor Scott II would see less time when he returns from IL, likely stunting his development. I’ve no idea how either player will develop over the next several years, but I like both players. Each plays very good defense, which is essential for a center fielder. I don’t know enough about Church’s minor league career, but I do wonder why he’s getting to the majors at age 25. Scott is 24 with a couple of years of experience in the Majors. Is Church worth a look as an everyday player at the expense of Scott? Where does Church fit in with the Cards? Given Church’s age, it seems that if he’s not in Majors next year, he’ll never make here. Agree?

Good problem to have, log jam at a premium position. It will sort itself out. Nothing like a defensive outfield.

[ScotchMIrish]

There are plenty of good MLB players who didn't get to the major until mid 20's. In the case of Church he has 2 MLB hits. Watch him for the rest of the season and see how he does.

Biggest problem for this team is lack of starting pitching, closer setup men, middle relievers and long relievers. If that doesn't get fixed by 2026 we will be in the same place a year from now.

[sikeston bulldog2]

There are plenty of good MLB players who didn't get to the major until mid 20's. In the case of Church he has 2 MLB hits. Watch him for the rest of the season and see how he does.

Biggest problem for this team is lack of starting pitching, closer setup men, middle relievers and long relievers. If that doesn't get fixed by 2026 we will be in the same place a year from now.

I think many still embrace starting pitchers and consistency year to year. Meaning each year will produce like last year.

Bob Gibson- 1963-1972, 7 times 19 wins or more. 18,16, and 13 the other three years.

My point- that is consistency. That’s the model many hold to in their minds. It isn’t plausible.

Relievers and closers seem to truly be year to year. Tough assignment.

[JDW]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

[sikeston bulldog2]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

The argument against defense is, they can’t hit. But if the other team can’t score, then a mediocre hitting team has a chance.

[JDW]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

The argument against defense is, they can’t hit. But if the other team can’t score, then a mediocre hitting team has a chance.

+ Defense and + base running help win games. The path to the SB is easier now. When do the Cards learn to take advantage of this?
The Brewers learned.
Although ridiculously early to try and project Church, Nathan looks to be a guy who accumulates WAR well, where plus defense and base running IS accounted for.
More SB's and less gidp's for the offense, combined with more defensive runs saved.
Which other team would have a better defensive OF than the Cards with that alignment?
Funny thing is, the SP's then look a little better than they really are, with lesser pitch counts/inning.

[scoutyjones2]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

The argument against defense is, they can’t hit. But if the other team can’t score, then a mediocre hitting team has a chance.

Not scoring may rely more on pitching than OF defense

[sikeston bulldog2]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

The argument against defense is, they can’t hit. But if the other team can’t score, then a mediocre hitting team has a chance.

+ Defense and + base running help win games. The path to the SB is easier now. When do the Cards learn to take advantage of this?
The Brewers learned.
Although ridiculously early to try and project Church, Nathan looks to be a guy who accumulates WAR well, where plus defense and base running IS accounted for.
More SB's and less gidp's for the offense, combined with more defensive runs saved.
Which other team would have a better defensive OF than the Cards with that alignment?
Funny thing is, the SP's then look a little better than they really are, with lesser pitch counts/inning.

Offense wins games. Defense wins championships. Most times.

[sikeston bulldog2]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

The argument against defense is, they can’t hit. But if the other team can’t score, then a mediocre hitting team has a chance.

Not scoring may rely more on pitching than OF defense

I’m saying that the argument against our outfield- Scott Walker, is, they can’t hit. My position is, with their defense, combined with adaquate pitching, it should keep most games tight. Then this no hitting team may have at jest a chance.

[The Nard]

VS2 has overall been fine in CF.
Maybe instead it should be Church vs. Noot, or Church vs. Burleson.
An OF defense of Church-VS2-Noot would be a really good one.

The argument against defense is, they can’t hit. But if the other team can’t score, then a mediocre hitting team has a chance.

Not scoring may rely more on pitching than OF defense

Quality defense will often limit the damage, save a pitcher from bad situations, and increase pitching efficiency (pitch counts).

[Wattage]

It’s been fun watching Nathan Church over the past couple of series, especially last night when he got his first hit and first homer. He’s played superb defense in center and has showed off his very strong arm. Watching last night, I began thinking that I’d like to see more of him the rest of the year. But that would mean that Victor Scott II would see less time when he returns from IL, likely stunting his development. I’ve no idea how either player will develop over the next several years, but I like both players. Each plays very good defense, which is essential for a center fielder. I don’t know enough about Church’s minor league career, but I do wonder why he’s getting to the majors at age 25. Scott is 24 with a couple of years of experience in the Majors. Is Church worth a look as an everyday player at the expense of Scott? Where does Church fit in with the Cards? Given Church’s age, it seems that if he’s not in Majors next year, he’ll never make here. Agree?

1.Scott doesnt have "a couple years experience" - last year was hisnfirst year, and he didnt even stay most year.

Scott was also only up last year because edman nootbaar and dylan carlson all got injured before start of season. He was never supposed to make majors last year but injuries annihilated our cf depth. If not fir that this would be scotts first year and hes only 1 year younger than church.

2. Church absolutely raked in AA and AAA this year to a .911 ops across bith levels-- but this kinda came out of nowhere. Church had a .705 ops in AA last year and a .724 ops in A+ in 2023 so church wasnt really on amybodys radar until this season cuz he never hit like that before. Now was it a fluke or is this merely progression? And will it progress to majors?

[ScotchMIrish]

There are plenty of good MLB players who didn't get to the major until mid 20's. In the case of Church he has 2 MLB hits. Watch him for the rest of the season and see how he does.

Biggest problem for this team is lack of starting pitching, closer setup men, middle relievers and long relievers. If that doesn't get fixed by 2026 we will be in the same place a year from now.

I think many still embrace starting pitchers and consistency year to year. Meaning each year will produce like last year.

Bob Gibson- 1963-1972, 7 times 19 wins or more. 18,16, and 13 the other three years.

My point- that is consistency. That’s the model many hold to in their minds. It isn’t plausible.

Relievers and closers seem to truly be year to year. Tough assignment.

Lowest ERA among starting pitchers is Liberatore at 4.13 and he is 6-10. Mikolas, Pallante and Fedde are over 5. Gray is at 4.33 and will be 36 next season.

If we don't get that fixed we will be in the same box next season. The '82 Cardinals position players couldn't win with that staff. Bullpen is nearly as bad now that they traded 3 of the better relievers.

[redbirdfan51]

I think Church will be the 4th OF going into next season. I wish he hit right handed.

[Melville]

Perhaps Church should be given time to amass a couple of hundred PA's at the MLB level before jumping to any conclusions about his bat.
His overall game looks solid, but the bat will ultimately determine his future role.
Too soon to sing his praises.

[rockondlouie]

Mo has left C. Bloom with a mess in the OF.

I'm not sure any of the one's we're seeing this season even finish the year starting in the OF in 2026.

The OF has been a disgrace for too many years, hopefully through some smart trades and (small) FA signings Bloom can repair the Mo Mess.