Liberatore

[ScotchMIrish]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

[3dender]

I fully expect him to throw 150+ innings next year with little of the wear-down we've seen this year.

I was scoffed at several months back for suggesting he should have a loose innings cap this year, yet here we are with him 30 innings over last year's total, his 1st year back from being a pure reliever, and he's clearly struggling to maintain arm strength for more than a few innings.

If they keep pushing him to go 4-5 innings every 5 days there's a really good chance he'll get injured either this year or next. They don't necessarily need to shut him down, but at the very minimum they should plan to piggyback his starts with Graceffo or Leahy and pull him after 3 innings for the rest of the year.

[rockondlouie]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

[bccardsfan]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

[rockondlouie]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

Ha

No doubt bcc

Mo is leaving a HUGE mess for C. Bloom to clean up.

[sdaltons]

Bummer that all those years where we were bad, but not resetting, we couldn't just commit to him as a starter. He might have more stamina now. Instead they spent most of that time toying with him.

[scoutyjones2]

I fully expect him to throw 150+ innings next year with little of the wear-down we've seen this year.

I was scoffed at several months back for suggesting he should have a loose innings cap this year, yet here we are with him 30 innings over last year's total, his 1st year back from being a pure reliever, and he's clearly struggling to maintain arm strength for more than a few innings.

If they keep pushing him to go 4-5 innings every 5 days there's a really good chance he'll get injured either this year or next. They don't necessarily need to shut him down, but at the very minimum they should plan to piggyback his starts with Graceffo or Leahy and pull him after 3 innings for the rest of the year.

Why do you think he'll get injured pitching 4-5 innings every 5 days?

[scoutyjones2]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

Please, tell us the rotational offerings for 5 games when using an opener.. names to paper.
.including what that does to the bully, and how long does the opener pitch?

[Imperial Capitalist]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

How is an opener going to change the fact he's starting to run out of gas somewhere after 45-50 pitches?

[rockondlouie]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

Please, tell us the rotational offerings for 5 games when using an opener.. names to paper.
.including what that does to the bully, and how long does the opener pitch?

I can see why you were confused.

The opener would be for Libby starts, not in place of him.

I'd rather have him give up the first inning and be on the bump for the second-fifth before turning it over to the pen in the sixth.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Yes, it was foreseeable that he would start hitting a wall around the midpoint of the season or so due to the fact that he has been jerked around between the rotation and bullpen the past few years. Going from 88 innings, or whatever it was, last year to a full workload this year was always going to be rough.

They probably should have called up McGreevy earlier and gone to a 6 man rotation or done something to manage his workload a little better, but that kind of foresight has apparently been missing with this organization.

Good that people are noticing it, though, rather than just crapping on Liberatore for hitting a wall for no reason.

[OldRed]

Yes, it was foreseeable that he would start hitting a wall around the midpoint of the season or so due to the fact that he has been jerked around between the rotation and bullpen the past few years. Going from 88 innings, or whatever it was, last year to a full workload this year was always going to be rough.

They probably should have called up McGreevy earlier and gone to a 6 man rotation or done something to manage his workload a little better, but that kind of foresight has apparently been missing with this organization.

Good that people are noticing it, though, rather than just crapping on Liberatore for hitting a wall for no reason.

And it may be that's who he is.

[StlMike1969]

Starting pitching is a science unto it's own. The pitcher must show the ability to have either swing and miss stuff that can be sustained 3 times through the order or pinpoint control with a variety of pitches that the pitcher knows how to utilize and when. I feel like part of this should be on the pitching coach preparing the pitcher and catcher for each games batters with a plan of what to use and when. Guys like Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Clemens etc are hard to find in the modern era. They had swing and miss stuff that they could deliver from start to start for 5 innings+. Other guys like Maddux, Smoltz, etc that could locate a pitch on a dime are also hard to find.

This team needs a new coaching staff and a better evaluation of talent. 100+ MOH pitchers are great for a moment until the elbow blows out. I would rather see the team pursue guys that can throw 94-96 consistently with movement, and most importantly an above average secondary pitch that has a sharp decline in speed and increased movement. Teach them a 3rd as time goes on but at least perfect the two with control. Then have a pitching coach that preaches "Keep them guessing" when a hitter is expecting a 96 FB and gets an 80 change with the same angle and break you can see their futility. that needs to happen on every pitch. Target that 11 pitches per inning thrown goal and there will be success. Instead we are getting guys throwing up softballs and 25 pitches per inning because they cannot locate and are afraid to throw around the plate. It needs to be addressed.

[11WSChamps]

When all the fanboys were losing their minds about Liberatore's start to the season I mentioned his innings were going to be a problem later on and they have.

Predictably there was no backup plan.

I said in the offseason this organization was trending closer to the Pirates than first place.

Easy. Obvious. Correct.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

When all the fanboys were losing their minds about Liberatore's start to the season I mentioned his innings were going to be a problem later on and they have.

I don't think anyone would have disagreed with you. I said the same thing and I know others did as well.

Were there a bunch of people here who weren't worried about him hitting a wall because of the way that he was used in the past? I think that if someone didn't realize this, then theyaren't paying attention.

[ecleme22]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2

Can we stop babying Liberatore?