Offer Sheets

[dhsux]

Well heck not much happening with this. I for one predicted a big uptick.

Have there been a bunch that just went no where?

Are the GM's back in their shells not wanting to inflate the market?

I don't know how many OS candidates are actually out there? Where can one go for a listing of unsigned players without going through team by team rosters?

[STL fan in MN]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

[dhsux]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

Do you think any have been made and not accepted?

I'm obviously wrong on my earlier thinking. One could say a higher cap is a greater chance to make offers but it's definitely not working that way so you are right with your assessment.

[dr0zombie]

If a GM just gave a reasonable offer sheet to a team struggling to find a contract with a RFA that would be very welcome. That GM would be doing the other GMs job. They would obviously just match. A good historical there is Keith Tkachuk. Even with that at the time crazy contract it wasn't too much for what Tkachuk was worth or fighting not to get a good player poached. Granted, he really was the cup piece for that Chicago team.

The cap increase helps, but this is rare for a reason. There needs to be a player(s) underpaid and underutilized on a team without the cap space or unwilling to cover. It helps when that team is also trying to force a non-player friendly contract so just burning the players goodwill. Why Edmonton fans are more mad at their management. It was a uniquely bad situation Edmonton put themselves in. It just does not happen often.

Short answer is, I think this happens way less than you are thinking.

[Hockey Pete]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

Do you think any have been made and not accepted?

I'm obviously wrong on my earlier thinking. One could say a higher cap is a greater chance to make offers but it's definitely not working that way so you are right with your assessment.

I doubt it, at least not any players of note...

Two major things happened last season when Army pulled his miracle offer sheets;

First, EVERY GM in the league looked hard that their CAP situation (as STL/MN pointed out, much better this season) and Sheet eligible RFA's, and adjusted accordingly. They don't want to be victims to the same situation the Oiler's found themselves in.

Second, the player agents (their influence is rarely talked about) now have a bit more power in negotiations with the clubs. I've heard from several folks that RFA agents have been far more active this season in contacting teams for contract leverage (both the players team, and prospective teams).

While we may not see activity on our side of events, it sounds like there's a lot of activity on the other side. I just doubt we see a lot of movement as the CAP increased, but we'll see a lot of RFA's get raises...

[Tony Palazzolo]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

Do you think any have been made and not accepted?

I'm obviously wrong on my earlier thinking. One could say a higher cap is a greater chance to make offers but it's definitely not working that way so you are right with your assessment.

I doubt it, at least not any players of note...

Two major things happened last season when Army pulled his miracle offer sheets;

First, EVERY GM in the league looked hard that their CAP situation (as STL/MN pointed out, much better this season) and Sheet eligible RFA's, and adjusted accordingly. They don't want to be victims to the same situation the Oiler's found themselves in.

Second, the player agents (their influence is rarely talked about) now have a bit more power in negotiations with the clubs. I've heard from several folks that RFA agents have been far more active this season in contacting teams for contract leverage (both the players team, and prospective teams).

While we may not see activity on our side of events, it sounds like there's a lot of activity on the other side. I just doubt we see a lot of movement as the CAP increased, but we'll see a lot of RFA's get raises...

DA ruined for everybody

[dr0zombie]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

Do you think any have been made and not accepted?

I'm obviously wrong on my earlier thinking. One could say a higher cap is a greater chance to make offers but it's definitely not working that way so you are right with your assessment.

I doubt it, at least not any players of note...

Two major things happened last season when Army pulled his miracle offer sheets;

First, EVERY GM in the league looked hard that their CAP situation (as STL/MN pointed out, much better this season) and Sheet eligible RFA's, and adjusted accordingly. They don't want to be victims to the same situation the Oiler's found themselves in.

Second, the player agents (their influence is rarely talked about) now have a bit more power in negotiations with the clubs. I've heard from several folks that RFA agents have been far more active this season in contacting teams for contract leverage (both the players team, and prospective teams).

While we may not see activity on our side of events, it sounds like there's a lot of activity on the other side. I just doubt we see a lot of movement as the CAP increased, but we'll see a lot of RFA's get raises...

DA ruined for everybody

That might be a better question. How many years or decades will this last as "the offer sheet" story? I feel like this has a good 20 years on it as the one.

[Stlcardsblues]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

Do you think any have been made and not accepted?

I'm obviously wrong on my earlier thinking. One could say a higher cap is a greater chance to make offers but it's definitely not working that way so you are right with your assessment.

I doubt it’s happened a lot. I would imagine first you gauge the players interest then work on the structure of the offersheet. I would imagine the work into creating an offersheet is more complex than a regular contract as you are trying to figure out where that ground is where the current team isn’t comfortable matching but you don’t feel you are massively over paying in draft capital.

[leedog68]

Armstrong made the point that he wouldn't offer sheet a player that he didn't think he could actually get. I think all of them think that way.

[Tony Palazzolo]

Why would you expect an uptick? The cap went up a lot thus almost all teams now have the ability to match an offer sheet. It only worked for the Blues a year ago because the Oilers stupidly backed themselves into a corner, spending all of their cap space on July 1st and not leaving enough for Broberg and Holloway. No team was stupid enough to put themselves in that position this summer.

If a GM thinks the other team would almost certainly just match the offer sheet then they’re not even going to offer it in the first place.

Do you think any have been made and not accepted?

I'm obviously wrong on my earlier thinking. One could say a higher cap is a greater chance to make offers but it's definitely not working that way so you are right with your assessment.

I doubt it, at least not any players of note...

Two major things happened last season when Army pulled his miracle offer sheets;

First, EVERY GM in the league looked hard that their CAP situation (as STL/MN pointed out, much better this season) and Sheet eligible RFA's, and adjusted accordingly. They don't want to be victims to the same situation the Oiler's found themselves in.

Second, the player agents (their influence is rarely talked about) now have a bit more power in negotiations with the clubs. I've heard from several folks that RFA agents have been far more active this season in contacting teams for contract leverage (both the players team, and prospective teams).

While we may not see activity on our side of events, it sounds like there's a lot of activity on the other side. I just doubt we see a lot of movement as the CAP increased, but we'll see a lot of RFA's get raises...

DA ruined for everybody

That might be a better question. How many years or decades will this last as "the offer sheet" story? I feel like this has a good 20 years on it as the one.

I'm not saying it will lead to a Stanley Cup, but it certainly gets us closer. If it does this will be known as one of the most shrewd moves of the decade. As Blues fans we'll be talking about it for longer than 20 years.

[dhsux]

I very much get the set of circumstances in EDM that led to DA's "open door" for his offer.

But setting that aside, take a player like Holloway on another team and a suiting team feels he can play like Holloway.....and he doesn't get a 2.2 offer but the next step up....what many would call the overpay......a 4.6.

I thought there might be at least some of that going on, more so than in the past.

[stlblue06]

It took so many factors to make the EDM offer sheets successful. First off I don’t think there has ever been a double offer sheet(s) before. The fact that both players were also so unproven with little NHL experience helped the Blues a lot.

If either Holloway or Broberg were given the proper opportunities in EDM then they would have been signed/matched. It’s insane that players drafted so high in 2019 and 2020 still didn’t get much of a look before last season.

You won’t see an organization fail in their young talent evaluation, cap management, and be in a GM transition all at the same time very often (to say the least).

[netboy65]

It took so many factors to make the EDM offer sheets successful. First off I don’t think there has ever been a double offer sheet(s) before. The fact that both players were also so unproven with little NHL experience helped the Blues a lot.

If either Holloway or Broberg were given the proper opportunities in EDM then they would have been signed/matched. It’s insane that players drafted so high in 2019 and 2020 still didn’t get much of a look before last season.

You won’t see an organization fail in their young talent evaluation, cap management, and be in a GM transition all at the same time very often (to say the least).

The lack of a look at the players is one thing, but Edm didn’t have to go out and sign Skinner and whoever else on July 1 either. They both got enough of a look in the playoffs to attract Army’s attention. It’s on Edm to take care of their own before signing from outside

[stlblue06]

It took so many factors to make the EDM offer sheets successful. First off I don’t think there has ever been a double offer sheet(s) before. The fact that both players were also so unproven with little NHL experience helped the Blues a lot.

If either Holloway or Broberg were given the proper opportunities in EDM then they would have been signed/matched. It’s insane that players drafted so high in 2019 and 2020 still didn’t get much of a look before last season.

You won’t see an organization fail in their young talent evaluation, cap management, and be in a GM transition all at the same time very often (to say the least).

The lack of a look at the players is one thing, but Edm didn’t have to go out and sign Skinner and whoever else on July 1 either. They both got enough of a look in the playoffs to attract Army’s attention. It’s on Edm to take care of their own before signing from outside

Yep that was one of the key but very rare elements that made this such a rare offer sheet opportunity. EDM was fresh off a game 7 one goal loss where they stormed back from being down 0-3.

Which brings me to the next element of their unstable management (temporary GM) making the calls on those stupid “veteran” FA signings. You can also make a case that if there wasn’t a completely fresh GM (Bowman) making the call on matching the OS, the Blues wouldn’t have been successful.

Bowman/any new GM isn’t going to take it personally or take the blame on mismanaging the cap and players. I’m sure his view was “let’s not match/overpay just so we don’t look like we made mistakes to the public”.

[MikoTython]

My question, given how low-hanging that fruit was (not just in hindsight, but objectively), was DA the first or the only one to jump in w/ os's ? Had the vague impression there'd been other suitors. But maybe his offers were significantly better than the competition. Anyone have the inside story on all that ?

[TheJackBurton]

My question, given how low-hanging that fruit was (not just in hindsight, but objectively), was DA the first or the only one to jump in w/ os's ? Had the vague impression there'd been other suitors. But maybe his offers were significantly better than the competition. Anyone have the inside story on all that ?

Holloway I'm not sure about, but there were reports that Broberg got other offers that he turned down and they were at least for equal value as to what the Blues offered.

Now maybe he turned them down because they were early in RFA and he felt he could get more, or because they were for teams he didn't want to play for, or maybe he was still holding out hope Edmonton would come back with a solid offer (with the fact he requested a trade and saw what happened on July 1 this would be the least likely scenario)